net metering, selling back to the grid

[bam bam]

I wanna generate 25000 kWh per month and sell it back to the grid. So after a few calculations I found out I have to generate 167 kWh per hour. Iam going with a system that has no battery backup.

How expensive of a set up do I need to be able to average 167 kWh per hour?

[sensij]

It depends on where you are located and how you orient the array. A fixed array with good orientation in San Diego would need to be ~175 kW to generate that much, probably over a half million dollars. The way net metering works here though, it probably wouldn't make sense to push that much into the grid unless that was just a small fraction of annual consumption

[ButchDeal]

I wanna generate 25000 kWh per month and sell it back to the grid.

Net metering is not selling power back to the grid. That is the simplistic description used for the news.
Net metering is trading a kWh produced for latter consumption. They don't give you money for net metering, it just offsets your usage.
Some utilities will give you (very little) money for power Net Excess Generation (power produced beyond what is consumed, usually on an annual net).

Does your utility have net metering?

So after a few calculations I found out I have to generate 167 kWh per hour. Iam going with a system that has no battery backup.

How expensive of a set up do I need to be able to average 167 kWh per hour?

Does your area have 5 sun hours a day?

[azdave]

I wanna generate 25000 kWh per month and sell it back to the grid. So after a few calculations I found out I have to generate 167 kWh per hour. I am going with a system that has no battery backup.

You're just trolling us, right?


You want to generate in a single month the same amount of energy that the average US home uses in two years only for the purpose of selling it all at wholesale prices?

That fact that you mention you won't use battery backup did make me smile.

[SunEagle]

bam bam am

If you are looking to get someone to design a Utility size solar farm then coming to an open forum may lead you down the wrong path. Especially if you fail to include some specific data like where you want to install this system and what the local electrical code is. Also what POCO do you plan on selling this power.

Most Utility sized solar arrays have signed off on a Contract to sell their power at $X/MWh for Y number of years. That is called a PPA or power purchase agreement. Without that agreement you would be pretty much giving the power away because most POCO's won't pay Retail prices for a large amount of power unless they are in desperate need for it.

[Sunking]

This is never ever going to happen. You would have to be a Co-generator which takes all kinds of perrmits, plant operators, and you only receive Wholesale prices. You would never make a penny.

[NEOH]

It appears that you have already assumed 5 Sun-Hours per day ...
167 Kilowatts per Sun-Hour = 25,000 KWH per month / 30 days per month / 5 Sun-Hours per day.

It costs about $40,000 per each 20 KW Kit = PV Array + Enphase + Rails
Price for above equipment is $320,000 = 8 kits x 20KW each or 160 KW total

Your PV Farm will contain 500+ panels.

Additional items ( more $'s ) ...
You will need to purchase and install the Ground Mount Rack
You will need to purchase and install all disconnects, conduit and wire
You will need at least 1/4 acre of land.

Google will display many Ground Mount PV Kits that can be used for your idea.

[J.P.M.]

It appears that you have already assumed 5 Sun-Hours per day ...
167 Kilowatts per Sun-Hour = 25,000 KWH per month / 30 days per month / 5 Sun-Hours per day.

It costs about $40,000 per each 20 KW Kit = PV Array + Enphase + Rails
Price for above equipment is $320,000 = 8 kits x 20KW each or 160 KW total

Your PV Farm will contain 500+ panels.

Additional items ( more $'s ) ...
You will need to purchase and install the Ground Mount Rack
You will need to purchase and install all disconnects, conduit and wire
You will need at least 1/4 acre of land.

Google will display many Ground Mount PV Kits that can be used for your idea.

This ignores the idea that the OP is way out of their knowledge element and no clue about what's required or possible, much less practical.

OP: See Sunking's post for necessary details. To see your interest is encouraging and I support it, but once you're informed and once you get an idea of what's required, you may just agree with his comments.

[PNPmacnab]

It is obvious that the OP is confused in terminology. That is not unusual. I would say to them to plan on only using generated power for your own use when calculating payback. What you can get back from a utility will likely disappear to almost nothing in the future. Home generated power is basically a nuisance to the utility unless the panels face WEST. Smart meters will totally reinvent the home power scene with the advent of smart power meters that will eventually bill you a different price for power every minute. Grid tie in any case will always be a better solution than battery use.

[bam bam]

thanks for the replies so far,
SunEagle
Yes there is a PPA with a fixed rate and the contract goes for 20 years. the climate is around a steady 25degrees celcius, with an average of 5 hours of sunshine per day.

so If I were to use these panels http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/..._37#1149094722
doing my calculations I would need ~1100 of these panels, and at $50 USD per panel 1100 panels will cost me over $50K USD add in a bunch of other things my cost will be close to $100KUSD, and I also need to buy land that is at least 1000 meter squared. now the return on investment per month from selling back to the grid would be ~2300 USD per month, which is ~561000 USD for the entire 20 years.

so basicly invest ~100K USD, and in 20 years make back ~561000 USD.

what do you guys think, is it worth it?

bam bam am

If you are looking to get someone to design a Utility size solar farm then coming to an open forum may lead you down the wrong path. Especially if you fail to include some specific data like where you want to install this system and what the local electrical code is. Also what POCO do you plan on selling this power.

Most Utility sized solar arrays have signed off on a Contract to sell their power at $X/MWh for Y number of years. That is called a PPA or power purchase agreement. Without that agreement you would be pretty much giving the power away because most POCO's won't pay Retail prices for a large amount of power unless they are in desperate need for it.

[ButchDeal]

thanks for the replies so far,
SunEagle
Yes there is a PPA with a fixed rate and the contract goes for 20 years. the climate is around a steady 25degrees celcius, with an average of 5 hours of sunshine per day.

so If I were to use these panels http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/..._37#1149094722
doing my calculations I would need ~1100 of these panels, and at $50 USD per panel 1100 panels will cost me over $50K USD add in a bunch of other things my cost will be close to $100KUSD, and I also need to buy land that is at least 1000 meter squared. now the return on investment per month from selling back to the grid would be ~2300 USD per month, which is ~561000 USD for the entire 20 years.

so basicly invest ~100K USD, and in 20 years make back ~561000 USD.

what do you guys think, is it worth it?

NO.

Utility scale solar does NOT use NET METERING. you sell at wholesale rates to the power company.
Net metering is just up to what you consume on site.
No one builds utility scale with 155w modules.
You certainly will not be building utility scale for <$1/w using 155w modules
Your 170kW array is likely to cost upwards of $340k

[SunEagle]

thanks for the replies so far,
SunEagle
Yes there is a PPA with a fixed rate and the contract goes for 20 years. the climate is around a steady 25degrees celcius, with an average of 5 hours of sunshine per day.

so If I were to use these panels http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/..._37#1149094722
doing my calculations I would need ~1100 of these panels, and at $50 USD per panel 1100 panels will cost me over $50K USD add in a bunch of other things my cost will be close to $100KUSD, and I also need to buy land that is at least 1000 meter squared. now the return on investment per month from selling back to the grid would be ~2300 USD per month, which is ~561000 USD for the entire 20 years.

so basicly invest ~100K USD, and in 20 years make back ~561000 USD.

what do you guys think, is it worth it?

I also will say NO.

You are not using the correct costs over the 20 years. You are also tying to fit low wattage panels into a Utility sized array which takes up more ground space and racking. With 1100 of those 155w panels you are trying to install a 170kw system. A ground mount system is going to cost at least $2/watt depending on your labor costs to install it and not adding in the cost of the land. That is roughly $340k which is a long way from your $100k estimated for the system. Plus the cost of the land and all other requirements for a Co-generation plant.

You mention you will have a PPA. What will be your selling price per kWh? Remember solar panels will degrade over time (slowly but still degrade) and you will have to invest maintenance costs into that system to keep the panels clean and working. There may also be some environmental costs along with fencing and visual barriers depending on where you find that land.

I think your ROI is not as high as you calculate and while it may eventually pay for itself IMO it is not a good way to invest my money.

[J.P.M.]

what do you guys think, is it worth it?

No. Like advice on the stock market: Only buy what you know. Your lack of knowledge will cost you dearly and come to nothing or less.

[Sunking]

so basicly invest ~100K USD, and in 20 years make back ~561000 USD.

what do you guys think, is it worth it?

Absolutely go for it. I will do the deal for you and make it even better. than what you will really get.

You give me $100,000 USD today, and I will gladly pay you $1000 USD every year until you die.

Do we have a deal. I promise it is a lot better deal than you are making.

[Sunking]

OK I will just come right out and say it. No one else has the guts to tell you the truth directly. It is called Political Correctness a very serious disease in the USA right now

What everyone is trying to say without hurting your feelings is YOU ARE A MORON WITHOUT A CLUE.