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Operating a 220v well pump during power outages

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  • Operating a 220v well pump during power outages

    I have seen some discussions that come close to what I want to do but not close enough to suit me so please forgive me if I am asking a question that has already been answered.

    I want to be able to operate my well pump during power outages or if power were to be unavailable in our area for a long period of time.

  • #2
    I forgot to mention I want to tie it into the existing 220 circuit so it will run without a need to go out and flip a switch if that is possible.

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    • #3
      To run a well pump for an hour defines one set of system criteria. To run for a day is an entirely different criteria. Where we live the grid normally goes down for a day at least once a month, and usually it is down for a week at least once a year. The East Coast is good for this. Most homes here run a generator. If a generator sits for 3 weeks there is no maintenance. When it is needed it starts automatically.
      4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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      • #4
        I've got an MS4024 inverter/charger hooked it to the mains (120v & 240v). Well pump is one of the items off the subpanel (along with incubators & other stuff that I just simply can't afford to lose power on). For long term outages, you can either charge the batteries via solar or generator.

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        • #5
          Is your property suited for a water tower? running a 220 volt deep well pump from batteries will be cost prohibitive, even if for a single hour of run time. Other options include an in ground surface tank (cistern) pumped full wile on grid and use low power pumps for house supply. you can also replace pump with a new inverter controlled smart pump.

          Comment


          • #6
            Anything can be done, for a price.
            Gasoline Generator :$800 & Transfer switch for pump $300, $5 gasoline Gives 7 hours run time
            Battery & Inverter backup: 4 golf cart batteries $500, 24V 3Kw inverter $2000, automatic transfer switch $500, 120V charger $150 Gives 3 hours run time
            Make it solar, Add $5000 for panels, mounts, different inverter and charge controller.
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
              Anything can be done, for a price.
              Gasoline Generator :$800 & Transfer switch for pump $300, $5 gasoline Gives 7 hours run time
              Battery & Inverter backup: 4 golf cart batteries $500, 24V 3Kw inverter $2000, automatic transfer switch $500, 120V charger $150 Gives 3 hours run time
              Make it solar, Add $5000 for panels, mounts, different inverter and charge controller.

              So what you are basically saying is if we lose power here for 1 week and can not get gas I need to have enough gas on hand to run my generator for a week or spend $5k to $6k to make it solar. I am thinking I will simply dig a hole, put a tank in the ground, fill it with gas 5 or 10 gallons at a time, make sure I keep it treated with StaBil and use my generator.

              Did I get that right?

              Comment


              • Wy_White_Wolf
                Wy_White_Wolf commented
                Editing a comment
                $5 to 6K would be just for the panels. By the time you add the batteries and everything else you're looking at $10 to 12K.

            • #8
              For a week long emergency, you don't run the generator 24/7, you run it for 30 minutes, charge your cell phones and wash dishes, take your shower, and save a bucket of water. Then you turn the generator off. Then back on for half an hour in the evening, flush the toilets, and refill the buckets of water. One gallon will last you several days of intermittent usage. Most generators large enough for 240V, have a 4 or 5 gallon tank on them. And you can siphon gas out of your car if needed, a $5 siphon hose is better than a $30 can of stale gas,
              We've not addressed the fridge. Which may be feasable with a small inverter generator.
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                For a week long emergency, you don't run the generator 24/7, you run it for 30 minutes, charge your cell phones and wash dishes, take your shower, and save a bucket of water. Then you turn the generator off. Then back on for half an hour in the evening, flush the toilets, and refill the buckets of water. One gallon will last you several days of intermittent usage. Most generators large enough for 240V, have a 4 or 5 gallon tank on them. And you can siphon gas out of your car if needed, a $5 siphon hose is better than a $30 can of stale gas,
                We've not addressed the fridge. Which may be feasable with a small inverter generator.

                Thanks for the info. I am aware of cycling the use of the generator because we already have 2 5k generators that actually power the entire house, with the exception of the air conditioners and since we have mini split units we may even be able to run them long enough to cool the bedrooms down or heat them for sleeping at night. Sounds like I already have what I need. I was just looking for a way to do it with solar in case of an extended outage.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Clyde View Post


                  Thanks for the info. I am aware of cycling the use of the generator because we already have 2 5k generators that actually power the entire house, with the exception of the air conditioners and since we have mini split units we may even be able to run them long enough to cool the bedrooms down or heat them for sleeping at night. Sounds like I already have what I need. I was just looking for a way to do it with solar in case of an extended outage.
                  I would suggest getting multiple types of generators that use gasoline as well as bottled gas. Or have a generator that can use both types of fuel. That allows you to have a large natural gas tank on site that does not go bad like gasoline.

                  You can also build a solar / battery system for the small stuff but that will cost more and will have a shorter life due to the batteries not lasting long.

                  I have all 3 types of emergency power systems (gasoline, bottle gas and solar/battery) in case of power outages due to hurricanes because I live in Florida.

                  If I could do it again I would have put that $2500 I spent on my 600 watt hour solar / batter system toward a $1000 2000 watt inverter style generator like a quite Honda. But live and learn.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    If you have a three wire well pump with an external capacitor, consider switching over to variable speed drive(they call it constant pressure pump) http://www.franklinwater.com/product...rivemonodrive/ That will cut your start up surge down substantially which allows you to run the pump on a smaller generator. It also cuts down on cycling. many folks also end up lowering their water pressure as there is no variation during operation. Hard to beat the technology and it can be retrofit to existing pumps. There really is no need for a large pressure tank.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Duplicate post
                      Last edited by peakbagger; 08-02-2016, 07:16 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                        I would suggest getting multiple types of generators that use gasoline as well as bottled gas. Or have a generator that can use both types of fuel. That allows you to have a large natural gas tank on site that does not go bad like gasoline.

                        You can also build a solar / battery system for the small stuff but that will cost more and will have a shorter life due to the batteries not lasting long.

                        I have all 3 types of emergency power systems (gasoline, bottle gas and solar/battery) in case of power outages due to hurricanes because I live in Florida.

                        If I could do it again I would have put that $2500 I spent on my 600 watt hour solar / batter system toward a $1000 2000 watt inverter style generator like a quite Honda. But live and learn.

                        I had been toying with the idea of replacing my 100 gallon LP tank with a 1000 gallon tank and just putting in as much as I could afford from time to time until I got it full and that should last a long time.

                        One more question and perhaps we can mark this post as closed.

                        How do I determine the amount of draw my well pump, or anything else for that matter, will put on the storage batteries? I thought I had it figured the pump would require about 8.5 amps per hour and since our pump doesn't run more than about 10 or 15 minutes out of the hour I thought I would be looking at a realistic amp hour drain from a battery at around 40 amp hours per day.

                        My concern after reading what you have said is that my figures are way off.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          If you have the space for and can afford 1000 gallon LP tank and fill as afford go. Yes much easier to pump water out of a surface tank than a deep well.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Clyde View Post
                            ........
                            How do I determine the amount of draw my well pump, or anything else for that matter, will put on the storage batteries? I thought I had it figured the pump would require about 8.5 amps per hour and since our pump doesn't run more than about 10 or 15 minutes out of the hour......
                            Whoa ! 15 minutes per hour ? You either have a leak somewhere, or have 15 kids and a huge garden.

                            What is the HP of the pump ? Sadly, the starting amps (LRA) is about 10x the running amps, and an inverter has to be sized to handle the starting surge.
                            My 1/2 hp pump pulls 1,000 watts off my inverter, and takes roughly 9Kw to start. My beefy inverter and battery bank has no trouble with it, and total running time per day is 3 hours on average. That includes drip irrigation for about 300 fruit and nut trees, 2 households, and the kitchen garden, around 2,000 gallons per day.


                            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                            Comment

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