One of friends from Northern California is looking to add storage. Is it beneficial? How to evaluate it and are there any calculators? I also posted this question here http://renewableelectron.com/questio...ng-rooftop-pv/
Is it economical for a home owner to add storage to already existing rooftop PV?
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Is it economical for a home owner to add storage to already existing rooftop PV?
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How does storage reduce your cost of electricity? If you are looking at using batteries to shift demand under a TOU plan, I think it might make sense someday, but not under the residential tariffs that exist today.CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx -
Based on the current battery technology and costs unless you have a lot of power outages or can save a lot of money by offsets the high cost of the POCO's power through a TOU plan the payback for any home energy storage system is very long and IMO not worth the investment until the price comes down and the output (kWh) goes up.Comment
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If you are net-metering, then I doubt it would ever make sense economically. If your grid goes down a lot, it may make sense for your lifestyle, but it is still not economic.
I have a neighbor who is net-metering, They have no batteries. They seem to be content with one or two power outages every month. They have no intent to ever get batteries.
If you are off-grid and you are discussing expanding an already existing battery bank. That is a different kind of discussion.
4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.Comment
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Until rates reach $1.10 per KWh, battery backup will COST you money (replacing many expensive batteries every 8 years)Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-ListerComment
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What is the lifetime for any type of EV battery? Probably much less than 8 years and that is what is being advertised for these home systems.Comment
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Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-ListerComment
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So I did some quick calculation and if it can delivery 6.4kWh every day for 10 years that came to about 23400kWh. For me to purchase the same amount of power at $0.11/kWh (that price actually is lower now for me than 8 years ago) would only cost me ~ $2600. I seriously doubt that battery will ever cost $2600 or less to install.
So even with all of their claims, it would never be a good investment for anyone that pays $0.15/kWh or less. And that is assuming it only costs $3500 to install one.Comment
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-have frequent and costly/dangerous power interruptions
-are no longer allowed to backfeed the grid
-are paying astronomical rates for power without grid tie
-cannot get on the grid (i.e. far from power lines)
Then it might make sense. But for someone on the grid in (say) Sacramento - it doesn't make economic sense.
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From talking with my neighbors, it seems that first-time batteries last between 10 and 15 years.
Among my neighbors, the shortest battery lifespan has been 10 years, when one guy allowed his batteries to freeze [a toilet ran all night, which drained his batteries, once they were flat those froze].
The shortest lifespan is 10, the longest is 15 years. I have neighbors who have been off-grid 30+ years.
4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.Comment
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From talking with my neighbors, it seems that first-time batteries last between 10 and 15 years.
Among my neighbors, the shortest battery lifespan has been 10 years, when one guy allowed his batteries to freeze [a toilet ran all night, which drained his batteries, once they were flat those froze].
The shortest lifespan is 10, the longest is 15 years. I have neighbors who have been off-grid 30+ years.
As for any Lithium type chemistry the lifespans maybe longer but at a much higher up front cost which equates to a very expensive way to generate power and being much more than FLA with its shorter life.Comment
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One online retailer charges $4500, so that's $4500 / 23400kWh = $0.19 /kWh for storage if you are an electrician and install it yourself onto a system that can already handle it.
With the ITC, it's 30% less, or $0.13.
Hawaii's considering offering another 25%: http://www.thestate.com/news/busines...e74562142.html
That would bring the price down to $0.09.
That very well might make sense in Hawaii.
http://arstechnica.com/business/2015...lls-in-the-us/ quotes the installed cost of a powerwall plus inverter (presumably solaredge 7600?) as $6500. If a solaredge installed is $2000, that suggests the installed price of a powerwall is $4500. So maybe the estimate above is valid for non-diy, too.Last edited by DanKegel; 05-07-2016, 09:52 AM.Comment
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One online retailer charges $4500, so that's $4500 / 23400kWh = $0.19 /kWh for storage if you are an electrician and install it yourself onto a system that can already handle it.
With the ITC, it's 30% less, or $0.13.
Hawaii's considering offering another 25%: http://www.thestate.com/news/busines...e74562142.html
That would bring the price down to $0.09.
That very well might make sense in Hawaii.Comment
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Updated my post with an installed price.
Musk has a bit of credibility these days:
Elon Musk's private spaceflight company continues to deliver. On Friday, a second rocket landed off the coast of Florida.
That's three successful booster landings so far.
Apropos warranties: the Nissan Leaf battery warranty is eight years,
The 2024 Nissan LEAF is ready for any adventure with impressive range and impressive power. Explore its features, including range, battery, charging, interior & more.
so your estimate seems reasonable.
Why do you say gamble? Even at 8 years, that's $0.11 cents/kWh, which might still sound good in Hawaii.Last edited by DanKegel; 05-07-2016, 10:02 AM.
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4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.Comment
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