Air conditioner that stores cold in ice for later

[DanKegel]

Looks to me they pay off mostly for the manufacturers if I read the text of that drivel correctly and believe any of it.

Why not call up the Sarasota School District and ask if it's saving them money? They say it's saving them $2 million/year.
See e.g. http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local...ning/16160965/
As I mentioned, I've seen them at a local community college. I don't think they'd be selling so many of these if it weren't saving people money.

[Sunking]

You keep spreading your tripe and I'll continue to call it tripe. Fair enough ?

Sounds like a plan to me.

[J.P.M.]

Looks like both the Ice Bear and Calmac systems pay off for some people;
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/ice-...torage/408356/
discusses both, and mentions that some of the savings can come from reducing demand charges or getting paid by the utility for reducing load on demand.

Looks to me they pay off mostly for the manufacturers if I read the text of that drivel correctly and believe any of it.

That link looks like little more than more time and energy wasted on hype and advertising masked as information and more of the same stuff you spread around here and probably elsewhere that does little or no good and often less. You keep spreading your tripe and I'll continue to call it tripe. Fair enough ?

[DanKegel]

To me, anyway and only, what the O:P has shown looks like another attempt to separate the energy ignorant from some of their financial assets. I'd turn up the summer setting on the thermostat before I'd spend the time/effort/money.

Looks like both the Ice Bear and Calmac systems pay off for some people;
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/ice-...torage/408356/
discusses both, and mentions that some of the savings can come from reducing demand charges or getting paid by the utility for reducing load on demand.

[Sunking]

No idea how cost-effective or energy-efficient this is.

Well spoken Danny boy. I am proud of you as you finally admitted you have no clue.

[DanKegel]

I love the 'satire in comic sans' convention!

Fun fact: one of my son's teachers required the students to use Comic Sans for an essay recently. No idea why.

[J.P.M.]

Ah I remember those days back at U of D. When it was fun to be part of solar pv research.

Do you mean to imply you're not having fun now ?

[DanKegel]

I saw a big array of ice storage systems at Los Angeles Community College recently. ( the vendor mentions them at http://www.calmac.com/energy-storage...energy-storage ) That's huge compared to the Ice Bear 20, though.

[SunEagle]

Dr. Telkes at U. of Delaware (SunEagle's Alma Mater I believe) probably did more on eutectic salts than most. Viable methods once corrosion and maint. are addressed. Times to cost effectiveness tended to be somewhat long, but have probably improved since last I checked several years ago. Economics or phase change materials were usually still not attractive vs. large water large chiller plants 10+ years ago.

Ah I remember those days back at U of D. When it was fun to be part of solar pv research.

[J.P.M.]

Our company does this for one of our larger buildings. At night they run the chillers and cool down big tanks of eutetic salts. During the day they circulate water through the salt and use that for air conditioning.

Dr. Telkes at U. of Delaware (SunEagle's Alma Mater I believe) probably did more on eutectic salts than most. Viable methods once corrosion and maint. are addressed. Times to cost effectiveness tended to be somewhat long, but have probably improved since last I checked several years ago. Economics of phase change materials were usually still not attractive vs. large water large chiller plants 10+ years ago.

[SunEagle]

Our company does this for one of our larger buildings. At night they run the chillers and cool down big tanks of eutetic salts. During the day they circulate water through the salt and use that for air conditioning.

Cool. That is similar to where they use molten salt to store heat during the day and then use the heat to generate steam and electricity at night.

[jflorey2]

No idea how cost-effective or energy-efficient this is, but for people with lots of solar panels who need lots of cooling after sundown, it's fun to think this unit might pay off:

Our company does this for one of our larger buildings. At night they run the chillers and cool down big tanks of eutetic salts. During the day they circulate water through the salt and use that for air conditioning.

[J.P.M.]

Using The idea of thermal storage via latent heat of fusion, or melting/freezing, or more generally, large heat capacity, has been around for a long time - several thousand years if building integrated thermal mass is considered. There's not much new under the sun in that sense.

It's pretty much analogous to the concept of storing electrical energy in batteries for later use, or time shifting for load management, cost savings or other reasons.

Sizing/matching the thermal load and storage, and the particulars of the storage medium/heat exchange method/distribution system/etc. have been subjects of fairly recent ( ~ 40-50 or so years) efforts in alternate energy circles. For those interested, some of the most extensive efforts were headed by Doug Balcomb at Los Alamos. See the "Passive Solar Design Handbook", ISBN 0-89553-124-0, published 1983 for some details.

To me, anyway and only, what the O:P has shown looks like another attempt to separate the energy ignorant from some of their financial assets. I'd turn up the summer setting on the thermostat before I'd spend the time/effort/money.

[sensij]

This isn't being sold as a system to do what you are suggesting (store energy during the day to run an AC at night). It is being sold as a way to time shift the energy required to run the AC during the day... in other words, "charge up" the AC system at night when energy is cheap, then run the AC during the day for just the cost of the blower, not the compressor. The cost-effectiveness will depend on the differential between daytime and nighttime power and energy costs.

For a solar application, if you need the AC at night, you probably need it even more during the day. You would need a seriously oversized PV system to not only run the AC during the day, but also bank enough energy in ice storage to continue running the AC at night at a lower cost that just running from the grid. Hard to see how that would ever make sense.

[Logan005]

I had thought about a solar thermal trough design that uses coper pipes painted black containing ammonia feeding a condenser to remove the heat and then into an evaporator to adsorb the heat from indoors. similar to an RV propane refrigerator. It would be costly, but for an island/remote government building it could be viable.