When are people ever going to START doing something?

[SunSolarPro]

I've known a lot of people who usually post stuff on Facebook about global warming, always saying we should do something about it and stuff. But I never actually saw them do something. Worse is I've actually seen some of these people burning plastic and using their cars to get to the nearest store...which is just a few blocks away. In my opinion, hypocrisy is worse than global warming.

[Mike90250]

It's the Green Mafia.
Al Gore in his jet, preaching to the flock. Whiners protesting, then DRIVING cars back to their single family houses. It's all a sham. Do as I say, not as I do.

[J.P.M.]

Probably not real soon - if ever. It's more of the old saw: " THEY should go something about ......" ? Well, S.O.S.

IMO only, hypocrisy and cluelessness have a lot to do with it as well. An example: I sort of had that opinion confirmed during a tour of solar houses back in the early '80's. I noticed that most of the dwellings on the tour were some architect's environmentally inappropriate, oversized and overpriced wet dream. The folks doing the tour were mostly yuppies, and doing their part at saving the planet by, for the most part, all arriving at each residence on the tour in oversized fancy gas hogs with 1 or 2 people to a vehicle. Save the planet, my ass.

Flash forward to today. I try to avoid shopping at Whole Paycheck for a lot of reasons. However, I was there recently and noticed some person buying some fancy apples and putting each one in two - count'em two - plastic bags, while bitching to her co-shopper about the price of electricity and how solar would reduce oil use and air pollution. Small matter, but perhaps telling.

We're becoming more moronic by the day. The movie "Iidiocracy" may be more prescient than comedic.

[SunEagle]

I've known a lot of people who usually post stuff on Facebook about global warming, always saying we should do something about it and stuff. But I never actually saw them do something. Worse is I've actually seen some of these people burning plastic and using their cars to get to the nearest store...which is just a few blocks away. In my opinion, hypocrisy is worse than global warming.

Exactly my point. If someone is so concerned about the carbon in our air what are they personally doing to reduce it?

Complaining or running around in circles screaming and shouting just makes me turn down the volume.

[C.R.J.]

I work in the oil industry, actually looking for oil! So i am in almost daily contact with 'Saffron Robed tree huggers'. They are with us to stop us from harming whales, dolphins etc while we are surveying. Which by the way is a good thing. However more than a few of them are 'over enthusiastic' (That's being nice!). They do go on about our industry ruining the planet, but then complain they are not paid enough to do this job, and complain about the conditions onboard the survey ships. They want to save the planet, but from behind a desk with a well paid job.

[J.P.M.]

I work in the oil industry, actually looking for oil! So i am in almost daily contact with 'Saffron Robed tree huggers'. They are with us to stop us from harming whales, dolphins etc while we are surveying. Which by the way is a good thing. However more than a few of them are 'over enthusiastic' (That's being nice!). They do go on about our industry ruining the planet, but then complain they are not paid enough to do this job, and complain about the conditions onboard the survey ships. They want to save the planet, but from behind a desk with a well paid job.

Thanks for the interesting perspective, but not surprising observations.

[Sunking]

Pretty simple. From a Political POV you have only one goal, to grab as much power, control, and money as you can over the public. It is a SCAM created by governments and fed to the public. People who believe it are puppets.

[J.P.M.]

Pretty simple. From a Political POV you have only one goal, to grab as much power, control, and money as you can over the public. It is a SCAM created by governments and fed to the public. People who believe it are puppets.

Some things never change.

[DanKegel]

One can measure how many people are doing something about it. http://www.seia.org/research-resourc...-industry-data says total US installed solar is about 22GW, growing by about 7 GW/year. For instance, Los Angeles just signed a PPA for 150MW of solar at 5.9 cents per kWh ( http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/...ISC_6-3-15.pdf ). That's something.

Maybe you meant something like "See? Solar power is too damn expensive. Hardly anyone is switching to it, and without subsidies, nobody would." It's true, 22GW is small potatoes compared to the 1000 GW total load, and largely dependent on subsidies. But if costs keep dropping - utility scale solar costs dropped by a sixth or so over the last two years - those subsidies won't be needed too much longer.

[solarix]

The great majority of people are reactionary and lazy - they react when forced to do so by some external force. Until then they just cruise along doing their own thing. Very few look ahead, invest for the long term, put off gratification. When solar gets to be the cheapest, easiest form of electricity - then the public will get on board. The banker types that seem to run the world are doing their best to keep them all mollified and avoid the looming long term problems. If a world-changing crises occurs that reaches down to joe-six-pack's back yard, they will all scream for change when actually, they've been avoiding it for many years. I love working in the solar industry, because the people in it are the forward thinking ones.

[J.P.M.]

The great majority of people are reactionary and lazy - they react when forced to do so by some external force. Until then they just cruise along doing their own thing. Very few look ahead, invest for the long term, put off gratification. When solar gets to be the cheapest, easiest form of electricity - then the public will get on board. The banker types that seem to run the world are doing their best to keep them all mollified and avoid the looming long term problems. If a world-changing crises occurs that reaches down to joe-six-pack's back yard, they will all scream for change when actually, they've been avoiding it for many years. I love working in the solar industry, because the people in it are the forward thinking ones.

FWIW, Mostly +1.

However, on the last sentence, I'd go neutral or maybe a bit negative on concurrence. Lots of good and well meaning folks in R.E., but to me at least, a bit reminiscent of the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In my experience only, and definitely not painting everyone with the same brush, there seems to be a few more rose colored glasses types in R.E. than is good for not only R.E., but the general user public.

I made a career and a living engineering, among other things, power generating and handling equipment on an industrial scale. Solar and R.E. has always been more than a hobby (and why I became an engineer in the 1st place) but less than a job, except on numerous times when the two crossed paths.

If I were given the choice of who to choose for the best, safest and fit for purpose equipment design of most any type of power producing equipment, based on what I see as the odds and probability of a safe, well engineered and fit for purpose design, I'd pick someone who's been in/around the commercial power industry over someone from the R.E. side of the street every time. Those folks ( the non R.E. types) tend to be a bit/a lot more pricky and curmudgeony , but based on my experience, they tend to know their stuff colder than a mackerel. Or at least more than those who do little more than repeat what they were told or what they may have read as seems more common in R.E.

[SunEagle]

FWIW, Mostly +1.

However, on the last sentence, I'd go neutral or maybe a bit negative on concurrence. Lots of good and well meaning folks in R.E., but to me at least, a bit reminiscent of the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In my experience only, and definitely not painting everyone with the same brush, there seems to be a few more rose colored glasses types in R.E. than is good for not only R.E., but the general user public.

I made a career and a living engineering, among other things, power generating and handling equipment on an industrial scale. Solar and R.E. has always been more than a hobby (and why I became an engineer in the 1st place) but less than a job, except on numerous times when the two crossed paths.

If I were given the choice of who to choose for the best, safest and fit for purpose equipment design of most any type of power producing equipment, based on what I see as the odds and probability of a safe, well engineered and fit for purpose design, I'd pick someone who's been in/around the commercial power industry over someone from the R.E. side of the street every time. Those folks ( the non R.E. types) tend to be a bit/a lot more pricky and curmudgeony , but based on my experience, they tend to know their stuff colder than a mackerel. Or at least more than those who do little more than repeat what they were told or what they may have read as seems more common in R.E.

Not saying that I am in the top end of the engineering group that you are talking about, but I do have hands on experience in both solar cell research (mid 70's) and industrial power distribution industry (since the 70's ~ 40 years) and believe I understand the technology more than most.

I really wanted to see solar grow a few decades ago but quickly lost the rose colored glasses when reality set in.

Maybe if the cost keeps going down more people will jump in. But again while trying to be upbeat I am also practical and believe I understand some of what motivates the people in the power industry and their consumers.

Cost is only a part of the formula. There is also fear concerning "new technology" and while solar and wind RE have been around for decades some of the consumers still fear it and will oppose it. For RE (or any) technology to leap forward there needs to be a reduction in fear and elimination of the "presumed" issues that it may bring.

[J.P.M.]

Not saying that I am in the top end of the engineering group that you are talking about, but I do have hands on experience in both solar cell research (mid 70's) and industrial power distribution industry (since the 70's ~ 40 years) and believe I understand the technology more than most.

I really wanted to see solar grow a few decades ago but quickly lost the rose colored glasses when reality set in.

Maybe if the cost keeps going down more people will jump in. But again while trying to be upbeat I am also practical and believe I understand some of what motivates the people in the power industry and their consumers.

Cost is only a part of the formula. There is also fear concerning "new technology" and while solar and wind RE have been around for decades some of the consumers still fear it and will oppose it. For RE (or any) technology to leap forward there needs to be a reduction in fear and elimination of the "presumed" issues that it may bring.

I'm not saying I was either, but I sure was lucky to have worked with a lot of them. Like you, I really want(ed) R.E. to take it's place in the energy mix, and I believe it will.

I also understand and share the reluctance of a lot of very responsible folks who are conservative about adopting new technology, particularly where safety, or reliability is, and should be, of primary importance. Forget that it's bad enough to put your engineering reputation, not to mention your license on the line every time you seal a design, the idea that you can do harm or cause loss of life is a sobering thought that tends to make one reluctant to be an early adopter of new ideas untested by time. Been there, done that.

Still, it's probably necessary to keep in mind that too conservative attitudes can be an impediment to progress, and sometimes new ideas are considered dangerous simply because they are new. Some balance is often necessary.

Perhaps the best solar and R.E. can hope for may be to become true commodities like water tanks, and garage door openers that only fail after many years or if grossly misused, but are otherwise mostly dummyproof.

[veritass]

notice a trend?

[SunEagle]

notice a trend?

And yet there is still reluctance for people to jump in and install PV. While that chart is very eye opening, unfortunately it supports my claim that price is not the main motivation to go with solar.

I am hopeful that the connected pv load will increase but it will not become a large percentage of all energy generated.

All you have to do is look at Germany. Solar is maybe 22% while fossil fuel generation is still over 50%.