Heat tape on the back of the panel to melt snow?

[J.P.M.]

One more thing that panel warming system has melted 5 lb per square foot of ice on solar panels that are fixed or flexible thin film. It melts in about 3 hours at minus 3 degrees Fahrenheit. Again you need to only get the panel to be 32 to 39 degrees above freezing and that will melt the ice. If you leave it on in a snowstorm before it starts no snow or ice will ever collect on a solar panel.

Well, one more thing on your free advertising /scam odyssey: I suppose you can supply some independent testing to substantiate that ? Until then, and without a lot more info about how this stuff doesn't/won't/can't void claims,it's still a B.S. scam.

[J.P.M.]

This problem sure seems to have stumped the great minds here...

Not at all. In the manner Inetdog writes, the situation is easy to define for those knowledgeable in the analysis of such situations. It's just that the practical solutions tried so far are not suitable to day/day application.

[J.P.M.]

a problem in making these comparisons is that it is fairly easy to measure the heat needed to melt a particular amount of ice or snow when the ambient temperature around the panel is very close to freezing. At any significantly colder temperature some input heat to the panel will be lost to the environment (particularly at the back of the panel) without having any effect on the snow on the front of the panel. Without specifying the ambient temperature, wind conditions, and maybe even the design of the panel, the number of watts per square foot needed to melt snow is a meaningless number.
In addition, there is a possibility that the panelwarmer system gets better performance by insulating the back of the panel to some extent when operating. But this would be counterproductive during the summer when you want to reject heat as fast as possible from the rear of the panel to minimize reduced power output as the panel temperature increases.

fwiw, +1.

[J.P.M.]

Generally, the panels will heat up even with snow, and self-shed in a day. But maybe it's too cold. How hot does the tape get ? I wonder if putting it on the alum frame would be enough, I'd be very careful about applying heat to the backside sealing layer..

What about windshield de-icer ? Or a good coat of wax before snow season ? This is the first I've heard of panels not clearing. Maybe a sheet of styrofoam cut to fit backside to retain heat, and allow to thaw. Remove before warm weather.

FWIW, windshield deicer will probably change the ARC characteristics of the glazing. that will impair performance by some unknown amount for an unknown length of time. It might also void a warranty claim.

[J.P.M.]

Hello to everyone that needs snow melted from their solar panels during the winter months.
There is a company in Colorado that sells kits for snowmelt, [redacted]. They have a patented partner with an electro plastic that uses carbon nanoparticles to heat the solar panels.

It can be installed on any size solar panel and can adhere to a solar panel in 10 seconds. They are not a thin film heat tape/copper wire, heat tape of any kind, gas heated in any way, magnetically heated through four magnets that rub each other to create heat, heated hot water or liquid jell boiled in any way.

Their website is [redacted] and they do much more than just solar panel heating systems. They have micro-inverters that work with reactive power on demand 24 hours a day to give you a stronger power output from your solar array. They have racking systems, solar panels, carports, solar walkways, water creation from humidity, greenhouses, solar panels for greenhouses that grow food 40% faster than a regular greenhouse and use 5-70% less water for that growth, mobile greenhouses, and have three different types of DERM systems.

Mod Note: This is on the border between supplying information and advertising. I have made the URL information unclickable as a first step while we decide whether to allow the post or not.
ModNote2: The poster is a principal of the company involved. That makes it an attempt to get free advertising. Company link removed completely.

Until more information is forthcoming, this looks like a SCAM.

[osirisstevens]

One more thing that panel warming system has melted 5 lb per square foot of ice on solar panels that are fixed or flexible thin film. It melts in about 3 hours at minus 3 degrees Fahrenheit. Again you need to only get the panel to be 32 to 39 degrees above freezing and that will melt the ice. If you leave it on in a snowstorm before it starts no snow or ice will ever collect on a solar panel.

[osirisstevens]

They've been working and Kansas City Colorado Minnesota and New York state with no problems stated in the above blog. We actually have seen increases in the summer due to a special patented backing. As for reactive power micro inverters they are mostly for the grid not a stand alone system. We also have seen it work on 360 watt panels 72 cell. The smaller the panel the larger the battery need or you'll need another system. The panel itself really only needs to get up to 32 degrees. Everything film that I've tried has never been able to do what nano carbon particles can do.

[bcroe]

I think we have established that this is not a trivial problem. 32W per sq foot is as much power as the
panel max output, just managing that on an array of size (or over paneled) is a problem about as big
as building the original system. I await a working demonstration. Bruce Roe

[inetdog]

I put 150W per foot into a panel without melting any snow. Bruce Roe

A problem in making these comparisons is that it is fairly easy to measure the heat needed to melt a particular amount of ice or snow when the ambient temperature around the panel is very close to freezing. At any significantly colder temperature some input heat to the panel will be lost to the environment (particularly at the back of the panel) without having any effect on the snow on the front of the panel. Without specifying the ambient temperature, wind conditions, and maybe even the design of the panel, the number of watts per square foot needed to melt snow is a meaningless number.
In addition, there is a possibility that the PanelWarmer system gets better performance by insulating the back of the panel to some extent when operating. But this would be counterproductive during the summer when you want to reject heat as fast as possible from the rear of the panel to minimize reduced power output as the panel temperature increases.

[bcroe]

I put 150W per foot into a panel without melting any snow. Bruce Roe

[osirisstevens]

The PanelWarmer system takes 32watts a foot to melt the snow and can be turned off when not in use.

[inetdog]

.... They have micro-inverters that work with reactive power on demand 24 hours a day to give you a stronger power output from your solar array.......

The "work with reactive power" part does not sound like moonlight to me. Technically, in electrician speak, reactive power is that energy flow which cycles into and out of a reactive (inductive or capacitive) circuit component every half cycle of your 50 or 60Hz source, with a net energy flow of zero. Being able to generate a reactive power flow when needed can lighten the load on a utilities infrastructure, but still requires some sort of voltage and current source, even though little net energy is taken from it.
The other potential meaning of reactive power is power stored in an inductor (unlikely) or a supercapacitor (currently impractical and inefficient).
In no case could it be considered to "give you a stronger power output from your solar array", although when running a motor load, having an inverter that can source the associated reactive power locally can reduce distribution losses or triggering an overcurrent shutdown of the inverter.

[Mike90250]

.... They have micro-inverters that work with reactive power on demand 24 hours a day to give you a stronger power output from your solar array.......

Ah, the moonlight panels 24/7 power scam

At one time, the midnight classic controller, had a snow melt feature, but again, backfeeding the panels to melt snow, took a lot of power

[neweclipse]

This problem sure seems to have stumped the great minds here...

[bcroe]

Hello to everyone that needs snow melted from their solar panels during the winter months.
There is a company in Colorado that sells kits for snowmelt, [redacted]. They have a patented partner with an electro plastic that uses carbon nanoparticles to heat the solar panels.

It can be installed on any size solar panel and can adhere to a solar panel in 10 seconds. They are not a thin film heat tape/copper wire, heat tape of any kind, gas heated in any way, magnetically heated through four magnets that rub each other to create heat, heated hot water or liquid jell boiled in any way.

You might start by telling us how much energy might be required to melt clear a generic (250W)
panel, and how to get and manage that much power. I already tried heating a panel with 3 times
its rating energy with no results. No need to attach anything, just fed it back, but I have no
source of power many times the array rating. Bruce Roe