Shed freezer

[vudu]

I've been testing to see what kind of load my (toy, learner) system can handle - here are the specs.

- 10A mppt controller(renogy)
- 155ah battery(vmax)
- 2 100w panels (windy nation)
- 1500w inverter modified sine wave (windy nation)
- Sportsman GEN4000LP 4,000 Watt 6.5 HP OVH Propane Powered Portable Generator

I'm new to solar - and electricity - I thought ac/dc was a band.

But I've learned a lot and am beginning to stabilize my system so I thought I'd try a real load on it - a chest freezer - that I might make into a fridge (171 kwh per year / .468 kwh per day = seemingly doable.) Best case scenario I have an off grid freezer - worst case I move it to the garage

Will it work? Not likely, so I'm hedging my bets.

Here are the steps I plan to use to lessen the load on the batteries.

- Inside the freezer I have 4 quart containers with water. I'm hoping these will stabilize the freezer so the condenser does not have to run so often.
- Turn up the temp control - effectively making it a fridge (also not running it for extended periods at night will turn it into a fridge)
- Putting it on a (mechanical) timer - so it turns off completely at times
- Use Johnson Controls A19AAT-2C Freezer Temperature Controller
- The inverter has a remote control. I may have to hook up a timer to a solenoid to turn the entire inverter off now and then at night - it seems to use some amount of power even when it is not charging anything

I'll probably have updates for anyone interested if I don't burn anything down. Here are some pics.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/album.php?albumid=231

Feedback welcome.

PS

I'm using this as a chance to test my generator so the first thing I'm going to do is use it to bring the freezer down to temp - and at the same time use the DC out to 'equalize' (not sure if that is the right term but I see it as turning the charge up to 11) the battery. This generator/charger does not have a 'gauge' so I'll be watching it closely and making sure the volts don't get over 15.

By the way, anyone out there learning like me, one of the best metaphors I've found relating to charging a battery is looking at it as filling a tire with air. When you are filling a tire that is not fully inflated it is easy to put air into it - but when it gets close to being full you need more pressure (volts). This is a large battery (a tractor tire) and my 2 100 watt panels have a pretty difficult time bringing the battery up to max, healthy charge. So I need to zap it with an ac charger now and then to keep it healthy-er.

[solar pete]

I've been testing to see what kind of load my (toy, learner) system can handle - here are the specs.

- 10A mppt controller(renogy)
- 155ah battery(vmax)
- 2 100w panels (windy nation)
- 1500w inverter modified sine wave (windy nation)
- Sportsman GEN4000LP 4,000 Watt 6.5 HP OVH Propane Powered Portable Generator

I'm new to solar - and electricity - I thought ac/dc was a band.

But I've learned a lot and am beginning to stabilize my system so I thought I'd try a real load on it - a chest freezer - that I might make into a fridge (171 kwh per year / .468 kwh per day = seemingly doable.) Best case scenario I have an off grid freezer - worst case I move it to the garage

Will it work? Not likely, so I'm hedging my bets.

Here are the steps I plan to use to lessen the load on the batteries.

- Inside the freezer I have 4 quart containers with water. I'm hoping these will stabilize the freezer so the condenser does not have to run so often.
- Turn up the temp control - effectively making it a fridge (also not running it for extended periods at night will turn it into a fridge)
- Putting it on a (mechanical) timer - so it turns off completely at times
- Use Johnson Controls A19AAT-2C Freezer Temperature Controller
- The inverter has a remote control. I may have to hook up a timer to a solenoid to turn the entire inverter off now and then at night - it seems to use some amount of power even when it is not charging anything

I'll probably have updates for anyone interested if I don't burn anything down. Here are some pics.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/album.php?albumid=231

Feedback welcome.

PS

I'm using this as a chance to test my generator so the first thing I'm going to do is use it to bring the freezer down to temp - and at the same time use the DC out to 'equalize' (not sure if that is the right term but I see it as turning the charge up to 11) the battery. This generator/charger does not have a 'gauge' so I'll be watching it closely and making sure the volts don't get over 15.

By the way, anyone out there learning like me, one of the best metaphors I've found relating to charging a battery is looking at it as filling a tire with air. When you are filling a tire that is not fully inflated it is easy to put air into it - but when it gets close to being full you need more pressure (volts). This is a large battery (a tractor tire) and my 2 100 watt panels have a pretty difficult time bringing the battery up to max, healthy charge. So I need to zap it with an ac charger now and then to keep it healthy-er.

Howdy Vudu,

Sounds like your starting to get your head around this solar caper. I would be concerned with the start up surge when the compressor kicks in, wonder what it will spike too. The other thing is I think you could do with another panel or 2, anyway good to see your thinking about it, good luck.

[vudu]

Howdy Vudu,

Sounds like your starting to get your head around this solar caper. I would be concerned with the start up surge when the compressor kicks in, wonder what it will spike too. The other thing is I think you could do with another panel or 2, anyway good to see your thinking about it, good luck.

Thanks solar pete! I've got it connected to the genny right now. I'm unsure of the spike - but it did not make a blip on the gen. And, looking at the kill-a-watt - it is only using 80watts - wow that seems good.

I went to charge the battery as well and found the battery charger is not working - seems to be missing a button/fuse. Bummer.


IMG_0251.JPG

IMG_0252.JPG


Anyway, you are not the first to say I'd need more panels (and req CC) but my solar budget is tapped and seems like an interesting challenge to make it work.

[Mike90250]

- 1500w inverter modified sine wave (windy nation)

So, a mod-sine inverter will increase your power consumption initially by 20%, because of losses in the motor being fed with square waves (that's what mod-sine is, a palatable way to market square wave inverters)

So now it consumes 120watts instead of 100watts, and will need to run 20% LONGER to get rid of that excess heat (compressor motors are sealed inside the coolant system). It will also be noisier and the motor will not last as long.

You are going to need several more panels to keep it working.

Most generator 12V outputs are only rated to charge their own starting battery, 3-9 amps output. You will be better off with an automotive charger in the 30A range, instead of the little internal charger.

[Mike90250]

The other thing about running a generator on propane, is intake valve lubrication. With propane, there is none. It would be nice to treat the engine intake to a squirt of aerosol oil spray after start-up. Engine forums can advice you better on it.
(Sea Foam makes a good spray to use)

[vudu]

So, a mod-sine inverter will increase your power consumption initially by 20%, because of losses in the motor being fed with square waves (that's what mod-sine is, a palatable way to market square wave inverters)

So now it consumes 120watts instead of 100watts, and will need to run 20% LONGER to get rid of that excess heat (compressor motors are sealed inside the coolant system). It will also be noisier and the motor will not last as long.

I'm not surprised. I have not been impressed with the inverter. Nothing scientific, or numbers to point to, but it 'seems' inefficient. It is huge and loud - the fan runs - even when there is no real load (a 30w fan).

I think when/if I do another system, I'll use a pure sine.

You are going to need several more panels to keep it working.

Probably so.

Most generator 12V outputs are only rated to charge their own starting battery, 3-9 amps output. You will be better off with an automotive charger in the 30A range, instead of the little internal charger.

I've got one of these coming.

http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-G7200-UltraSafe-Battery-Charger/dp/B004LWTHP2

That will be my 'fix' (since this does not work on the gen).

The other thing about running a generator on propane, is intake valve lubrication. With propane, there is none. It would be nice to treat the engine intake to a squirt of aerosol oil spray after start-up. Engine forums can advice you better on it.

Sea foam:

http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Foam-SF-16-Motor-Treatment/dp/B0002JN2EU/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1441844567&sr=1-1&keywords=Sea+Foam

I'll, pick some up and keep that in mind next time I start. This gen does not have long legs and will need all the love I can give it to keep it together. This is only the second time I've started it and it really shakes and rattles. And the propane burning does not seem all that clean. It smells.


It is coming up on a couple hours now - I looked in the freezer - and the water jugs are near frozen. The freezer works at least :P

[Mike90250]

That noco 7A charger is too small, it's a battery maintainer, and you need to charge much faster, to keep your generator runtime manageable. 7A to charge that battery when it's got 50A taken out, needs 60A going back in, so that's 8 hours genset time, at light load, burning fuel. 30A for 2 hours would be a better bet, early in the AM, and let the solar finish it off !

[SunEagle]

10A Solar Charge Controller too small

You will also need to increase the size of that solar charge controller. 10amp is too small for both the 155Ah battery and 200 watts of panels.

[vudu]

That noco 7A charger is too small, it's a battery maintainer, and you need to charge much faster, to keep your generator runtime manageable. 7A to charge that battery when it's got 50A taken out, needs 60A going back in, so that's 8 hours genset time, at light load, burning fuel. 30A for 2 hours would be a better bet, early in the AM, and let the solar finish it off !

Will do, thanks Mike90250.

You will also need to increase the size of that solar charge controller. 10amp is too small for both the 155Ah battery and 200 watts of panels.

It is rated up to 260 watts. I'm using the panels in series - insuring the amps don't get over the rated 10. I need more panels for this batt, that is pretty clear - and therefore will need to upgrade the CC as well at that time. Was considering adding another panel in series, exceeding the 260 but still not going over the amps.

Last night, I turned off the gen after 4 hours, and the freezer seemed well on the way to freezing - but the shed was noticeably hotter. So I plugged it in to a LONG extension chord and this morning the compressor was still running - and the water never totally froze. All in all it was about 14 hours and it had used over .6 kwh. Not surprising I guess since it was not stabilized but I was certainly surprised it had not frozen the water. I'm going to let it sit for 24 hours unplugged. Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

[SunEagle]

Will do, thanks Mike90250.



It is rated up to 260 watts. I'm using the panels in series - insuring the amps don't get over the rated 10. I need more panels for this batt, that is pretty clear - and therefore will need to upgrade the CC as well at that time. Was considering adding another panel in series, exceeding the 260 but still not going over the amps.

Last night, I turned off the gen after 4 hours, and the freezer seemed well on the way to freezing - but the shed was noticeably hotter. So I plugged it in to a LONG extension chord and this morning the compressor was still running - and the water never totally froze. All in all it was about 14 hours and it had used over .6 kwh. Not surprising I guess since it was not stabilized but I was certainly surprised it had not frozen the water. I'm going to let it sit for 24 hours unplugged. Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

What is the make and model of that Renology 10amp MPPT Charge controller?. Without that info I am guessing at what it's ratings are.

If it is an MPPT then 260 watt charging a 12v battery will draw 20amps. If it is a PWM CC then most of those do not have a high DC voltage input rating so wiring more than two panels in series will exceed the maximum.

[Mike90250]

Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

Oy ! If you ever have to move a compressor unit, I always let it sit upright several hours after the last move. Then plug it in for about 1 minute, and unplug for an hour. Plug in for 5 min, and then unplug for an hour. You have to get all the oil back down into the compressor motor, or you burn it up.

[PNjunction]

That noco 7A charger is too small, it's a battery maintainer, and you need to charge much faster, to keep your generator runtime manageable. 7A to charge that battery when it's got 50A taken out, needs 60A going back in, so that's 8 hours genset time, at light load, burning fuel. 30A for 2 hours would be a better bet, early in the AM, and let the solar finish it off !

Mike's right. You don't have the time to wait around for the 7A Noco, but it will do great on your car!

A better bet would be a Samlex SEC1230ul. You have to provide the clamps or cabling, but this is a big step above a typical vehicle charger / maintainer. You can read the manual for it online, and you'll see what I mean. I have chargers coming out my ears because I'm a freak, but in this instance Mike is quite right.

[vudu]

What is the make and model of that Renology 10amp MPPT Charge controller?. Without that info I am guessing at what it's ratings are.

If it is an MPPT then 260 watt charging a 12v battery will draw 20amps. If it is a PWM CC then most of those do not have a high DC voltage input rating so wiring more than two panels in series will exceed the maximum.

MPPT Tracer1210RN Solar Charge Controller Regulator 12/24V INPUT 10A

http://www.amazon.com/Tracer1210RN-Solar-Charge-Controller-Regulator/dp/B008KWPGS6/ref=sr_1_4?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1442233939&sr=8-4&keywords=tracer+mppt

Oy ! If you ever have to move a compressor unit, I always let it sit upright several hours after the last move. Then plug it in for about 1 minute, and unplug for an hour. Plug in for 5 min, and then unplug for an hour. You have to get all the oil back down into the compressor motor, or you burn it up.

I had to set it on its side to get it home. Not more than an hour. Let it sit upright for 6 hours before plugging in.

I've got it sitting on my patio now - seems to be running fine now - but not quite getting to the advertised .468 kWh advertised. The kill-a-watt thing is a neat tool. Wish I had that years ago.

One of the things about solar is it really gets you to look at the size/efficiency of things. I'm not going to try to put it on solar unless I can get it down to ~.25kwh

Mike's right. You don't have the time to wait around for the 7A Noco, but it will do great on your car!

A better bet would be a Samlex SEC1230ul. You have to provide the clamps or cabling, but this is a big step above a typical vehicle charger / maintainer. You can read the manual for it online, and you'll see what I mean. I have chargers coming out my ears because I'm a freak, but in this instance Mike is quite right.

I've got the noco 7amp now so it better work :P

I think I will use it to maintain my 155ah batt - off solar. If the grid goes down I'll use it for the fridge.

I'm selling the generator. No like

Cheers all and thanks for the advice. Paul

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Will do, thanks Mike90250.



It is rated up to 260 watts. I'm using the panels in series - insuring the amps don't get over the rated 10. I need more panels for this batt, that is pretty clear - and therefore will need to upgrade the CC as well at that time. Was considering adding another panel in series, exceeding the 260 but still not going over the amps. :

10amps is what the output is limited to. So you're only getting 120watts out of the 200 watts of panels. May as well have saved your money and got a PWM controller. The 260W rating is for 24V mode. It's only rated for 130W is 12V mode.

Last night, I turned off the gen after 4 hours, and the freezer seemed well on the way to freezing - but the shed was noticeably hotter. So I plugged it in to a LONG extension chord and this morning the compressor was still running - and the water never totally froze. All in all it was about 14 hours and it had used over .6 kwh. Not surprising I guess since it was not stabilized but I was certainly surprised it had not frozen the water. I'm going to let it sit for 24 hours unplugged. Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

Since the freezer is outside in a shed your summer KWH are going to be a lot higher. The estimated numbers are for it being in a house that is temperature controlled. Mine that is in the garage uses about 4 times the power in the summer. Your system is way undersized because of this.

WWW

[vudu]

10amps is what the output is limited to. So you're only getting 120watts out of the 200 watts of panels. May as well have saved your money and got a PWM controller. The 260W rating is for 24V mode. It's only rated for 130W is 12V mode.

WWW

Hmm, I'm using the panels in series - does that not make it 24v mode? I'm getting as much as 40v from the panels. I was using a pwm and this mppt definitely 'seems' to work better.

Since the freezer is outside in a shed your summer KWH are going to be a lot higher. The estimated numbers are for it being in a house that is temperature controlled. Mine that is in the garage uses about 4 times the power in the summer. Your system is way undersized because of this.
WWW

I'm getting the feeling it may be undersized All true.

The best I've gotten thus far is .62kwh over a day. It was cool last night - so I might get it down to .55. I still have not hooked it to the a johnson control and turned it into a fridge. We'll see, if nothing else I'll have learned something.


Thanks! Paul