UL Certification

[russ]

From the Silicon Valley mercurynews.com

High-powered lamps expose panels to the intensity of "One Sun

[Sunking]

[QUOTE=russ;7404]From the Silicon Valley mercurynews.com

High-powered lamps expose panels to the intensity of "One Sun

[russ]

From time to time people talk about using panels that are not UL approved.

[fromport]

From time to time people talk about using panels that are not UL approved.

But for an off-grid situation that wouldn't matter right ?

[russ]

İf home owners insurance depends on items being UL certified then it would matter.

[fromport]

İf home owners insurance depends on items being UL certified then it would matter.

That makes sense. I intend to make setup a ground mount system on a weekend get-a-way.
No utility available. No home insurance

[Jarod]

[QUOTE=russ;7404]From the Silicon Valley mercurynews.com

High-powered lamps expose panels to the intensity of "One Sun

[russ]

@Jarod - Get into the line and take your turn - like everyone else.

[Mike90250]

Some cities, for a building permit, require UL cert.

[bam bam]

Some cities, for a building permit, require UL cert.

What so special about UL ceritfiied? would a power company check to see if your solar power equipment from time to time is UL certified?

If I can save money and install a grid tied solar setup in a foreign country via the DIY method that would be sweet.

[russ]

If I can save money and install a grid tied solar setup in a foreign country via the DIY method that would be sweet.

Everything can be wonderful until there is a legal liability such as in a fire caused by the solar system and the house burns down - then the home owners insurance is no good.

UL means that the equipment meets certain standards.

[Jarod]

What so special about UL ceritfiied? would a power company check to see if your solar power equipment from time to time is UL certified?

If I can save money and install a grid tied solar setup in a foreign country via the DIY method that would be sweet.

Grid tied system need certificate such as UL for American ,TUV for Germany and Australia.It is a warrant for those panels, which used the best quality of meterial to manufacture.
But a lot of off grid systems they would choose none-certificated panel just to save money. And those panels may have poorer performance for a long time usage,but if you lucky, they will work as long as 25 years.

[russ]

Grid tied system need certificate such as UL for American ,TUV for Germany and Australia.It is a warrant for those panels, which used the best quality of meterial to manufacture.
But a lot of off grid systems they would choose none-certificated panel just to save money. And those panels may have poorer performance for a long time usage,but if you lucky, they will work as long as 25 years.

Not a warranty actually - the certification says the panel (or other equipment) meet a certain set of standards that all can know.

Others such as an, insurance company, depend on and require those standards.

Something not certified by one of the agencies may well work very well for a long time - just don't let your insurance be voided. A stand alone system away from the house could be a perfectly good application.

[Mike90250]

If you are not needing to be concerened with inspectors, building codes, and insurance, than DIY is good.

BUT. I've not yet seen a DIY solar PV panel that lasts 5 years yet. Many folks here are having problems in the first week, with water vapor condensing inside the glass. There are few consumer products that can seal a solar panel as well as a factory made panel. So get a couple more opinions about PV panels, before you decide. You may be able to get some good prices from some of the new companies from China.

[uaflyer]

If you are not needing to be concerened with inspectors, building codes, and insurance, than DIY is good.

I'm all for DIY, but like anything else you must do it safely. You may think that a 100W homemade panel is fine, but when it shorts from delamination and the EVA catches fire, the savings may not be there. A solar process engineer told me all panels suffer delamination to some degree over its lifetime. I have not seen any panel over 5 years old that doesn't have some physical degradation and this is besides the normal cell loss. For this reason, I prefer EVA sheet with poly urethane, because Silicone always fails you over time. (though silicone is inexpensive)

This is very true. It turns out that certain low power systems do not require certification, such as a 2 watt outdoor light that's not connected to the grid or used indoors.

Most every rebate program I have seen in localities either require NEC compliant products or have a specially approved list of approved items.
If its not on their list, even with any approval and it can delay your project for months.

I have found like many standards, there are devices that UL only recently started testing or still has no standard for.

When I went through PV training many years ago, an integrator we visited noted that their systems are not UL approved but every component is. They happen to be one of the larger ones in the country. When I took classes at SMA in Germany, the subject of certification drew some amazing stories.

As noted through this forum, there are many wickets from Insurance, Power company requirements, Building inspectors and the like. Most all will require UL and NEC compliance weather its grid connected or not. If its not because of what the NEC says, its what a PE is trained to know (which generally makes us safer) and they probably won't care if its 500 miliamps or 20 kilowatts.

I have read many cases where Electrical power companies were able use non approved items when combined with certain approved safety considerations. This specifically in the case of fuel cell installations where many components the NEC doesn't even cover yet.

In most cities in California, the City won't bother you if its not connected to the grid.

Yes, there is a lot of unsafe and non certified product coming from China, but of the Market nearly everything is made in part or whole in China anyway. So its the product and design certification, of which is partially based on trust. This is why you can buy an item directly from China for $200 or buy it with UL certification from a US company for $3,000 and they can be identical inside. A most common reason is the device approval was granted to the US company and not the actual manufacturer. Additionally, that manufacturer may change out parts at will, whilst it still visually and functionally is the same. In a product life cycle, changing a part here or using a cheaper material there is common, but in some cases it requires fresh testing to keep certification. (something even US companies don't often do)

Don't bet your life on UL, CE or TUV testing either, its just a rock screen.

Overall, it comes down to your inspector, your PE or just your risk willingness for personal safety and that of others.