'Major discovery' from MIT primed to unleash solar revolution - What do you think?

[Handmade Matt]

"In a revolutionary leap that could transform solar power from a marginal, boutique alternative into a mainstream energy source, MIT researchers have overcome a major barrier to large-scale solar power: storing energy for use when the sun doesn't shine."

Click HERE to read the article

[Sunking]

Yawn another worthless PR from MIT trying to raise funds. MIT last great idea to go into production was Evergreen Solar which cost Mass tax payers over $100 M, US Taxpayers $1 B, moved to China, and went bankrupt never to be heard from again.

Oh I forgot stock investors lost $10 B in their personal money, and another $15 B in Creditors and Bond Holders money. MIT professors got filthy rich and now retired in the Caribbean at a young age using diesel fuel to generate electricity for their mansions...

[billvon]

It's a better electrolyzer. It's not a "major discovery" - electrolyzers have been around for over 100 years at this point. But if it's easier/cheaper/more efficient it would be a nice improvement to hydrogen generation systems.

[inetdog]

It's a better electrolyzer. It's not a "major discovery" - electrolyzers have been around for over 100 years at this point. But if it's easier/cheaper/more efficient it would be a nice improvement to hydrogen generation systems.

What I think is even more gratuitous is the attempt to link this catalyzed electrolytic conversion of H20 to O2 and H2 to photosynthesis. Other than the fact that it does not require addition of chemicals to the water to make it conduct electricity for the process, I do not see any relation at all! Let me double check.

This revolutionary breakthrough: Light hits a PV cell and produces current which splits water into just O2 in one place and separately splits it into just H2 at a different place(!) and absorbs energy in the process. It uses a phosphorus compound at one electrode.

Photosynthesis: Light directly drives a complex chemical reaction which splits C02 into C and O2 and stores chemical energy in intermediate phosphorus compounds so that the cells can then use it directly as chemical energy.

Yup, a perfect match!

PS: Most electrolyzer systems do not find it worth the trouble to separately store the oxygen, since there is so much of it in the air, so they just release it. (Kind of like grid tie, in a tenuous way....) The exception is when using an electrolyzer in space where you really are more interested in the oxygen. So, as billvon says, this could potentially be an improvement at the oxygen producing electrode end for an electrolyzer which is really there to produce hydrogen at the other electrode.

[russ]

MIT pushing something that even if it worked would be 10 to 20 years away from a commercial stage.

[Sunking]

The USN knew all this 50 years ago. Did you catch the part it take platinum? Navy knew that 50 years ago when they built the first Nuke sub and still used today. There is no news here, just MIT PR BS looking for suckers.

[billvon]

The USN knew all this 50 years ago. Did you catch the part it take platinum? Navy knew that 50 years ago when they built the first Nuke sub and still used today.

If it really works with neutral pH water without added electrolytes then it's a pretty significant advance in electrolyzer technology; most cells can work only with significant concentrations of electrolytes to overcome the natural resistivity of water. And if he's found a way to overcome the overpotential requirements that will significantly improve overall efficiency, which is good.

[Sunking]

There are two statements in this article that stink like a rat.

The key component in Nocera and Kanan's new process is a new catalyst that produces oxygen gas from water; another catalyst produces valuable hydrogen gas. The new catalyst consists of cobalt metal, phosphate and an electrode, placed in water. When electricity — whether from a photovoltaic cell, a wind turbine or any other source — runs through the electrode, the cobalt and phosphate form a thin film on the electrode, and oxygen gas is produced.

OK I am no chemist but I know enough to know you cannot take oxygen from water without also taking hydrogen. When you break the molecular bond you get two units of hydrogen, and one unit of oxygen. You cannot take one and leave the other behind.

The success of the Nocera lab shows the impact of a mixture of funding sources — governments, philanthropy, and industry. This project was funded by the National Science Foundation and by the Chesonis Family Foundation, which gave MIT $10 million this spring to launch the Solar Revolution Project, with a goal to make the large scale deployment of solar energy within 10 years.

Pretty much says it all and supports my POV

[PNjunction]

Problem is, in today's world, you could have revolutionary solar / battery efficiencies ready to go to market - but the patent-troll system ensures that litigation (right or wrong) will keep us from ever seeing it.

[Sunking]

Problem is, in today's world, you could have revolutionary solar / battery efficiencies ready to go to market - but the patent-troll system ensures that litigation (right or wrong) will keep us from ever seeing it.

Just how do you figure that? Patent are a legal process but pretty straight Forward and most of the legal cost are for searches and administration. It takes about a year from application to issue a patent. No company or individual is going to release a new technology without protecting their product.

[russ]

Problem is, in today's world, you could have revolutionary solar / battery efficiencies ready to go to market - but the patent-troll system ensures that litigation (right or wrong) will keep us from ever seeing it.

That is one of the false statements often made on the topic. Kind of like the 100 mpg carb thing or who killed the first Chevy EV - folk tales with no fact behind them.

The world of patents is tough business no doubt but the good usually gets through.

[billvon]

OK I am no chemist but I know enough to know you cannot take oxygen from water without also taking hydrogen.

You are correct! Which is why the article says "another catalyst produces valuable hydrogen gas." It requires two.

[billvon]

That is one of the false statements often made on the topic.

It's not that far off. Patents are often used to prevent progress, or more accurately ensure that no one else other than the patent holder can progress. The Ovonics patents on large ni-mh batteries are a good example; it's one of the reasons the first EV's were not as successful as they might have been (for example.) The general term for this is "patent encumbrance."

Nowadays "shotgun patents" are becoming more common, where a group of engineers get together and patent every idea they have - good, bad or otherwise - in hopes that they will someday be able to sue someone who comes up with the idea independently.

On the plus side this only works for the duration of the patent, generally 20 years.

[russ]

The patent system is not friendly to the small guy nor to those that don't understand how it works. A patent is expensive to file and maintain - most small guys can't manage.

A ''shotgun'' patent is generally silly as the patent document has to describe a unique item or process. People may do that but is is generally a waste of time.

I have been through this many times researching and writing basic patent documents for the lawyers to proceed with - both in the US and overseas.

[russ]

You are correct! Which is why the article says "another catalyst produces valuable hydrogen gas." It requires two.

You just stated the reverse of what Sunking said while saying you agreed with him.