Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Solar to provide 20% of energy by 2027

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by DanKegel View Post
    Hmm. Not sure why you think it's not practical.
    Because . . .
    I totally agree PV plants don't produce power at night, of course . . . .

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DanKegel View Post
      It's not just the governor. It's everybody who cares about the climate, which is a fairly large set of people in LA.
      Watching temperatures keep rising, and the icecaps melting, is an ongoing nightmare; a lot of people are motivated to help solve the problem.
      Great! The fastest thing we could do is restart San Onofre. Over a gigawatt of carbon-free power. Next fast-track the ~26 new nuclear reactors that have been proposed. That will provide the baseline power that you need to support a lot of renewables.

      Comment


      • I don't think nuclear is especially cost-effective at the moment, alas. San Onofre would be really, really expensive to fix at this point, and new reactors can't compete with gas.

        Why would PV not working at night prevent 25% RE penetration from being practical in, say, California or Texas?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DanKegel View Post
          I don't think nuclear is especially cost-effective at the moment, alas. San Onofre would be really, really expensive to fix at this point, and new reactors can't compete with gas.

          Why would PV not working at night prevent 25% RE penetration from being practical in, say, California or Texas?
          Dan do you have any idea why building NUKE plants is so expensive?

          Of course you do, you know exactly why. Because obstructionist like yourself triple the cost with Red Tape, Rhetoric, and fear mongering. You want nothing more than to bankrupt the economy and destroy the country. Why the hell do you think Democrats lost control of all the Federal government, state and local legislators plus 39 governors in the last 8 years. Why in the hell do you think a buffoon like Trump got elected? Because the country told you to get lost comrade, Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

          I always knew the RNC could get a ham sandwich or shadow puppet elected POTUS against Billiary. To bad it was Chump. Anyone else would have been a landslide. But me thinks Trump might shake things up for the good.
          Last edited by Sunking; 12-01-2016, 06:26 PM.
          MSEE, PE

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sunking View Post
            Dan do you have any idea why building NUKE plants is so expensive?
            Yeah, they're big and complicated, and people freak out when they explode It's a bit like manned spaceflight, safety demands are high.

            If we're lucky, though, Westinghouse's AP1000 will have enough volume to get costs down. First one's supposed to come online in 2018, with three more following close behind.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DanKegel View Post
              I don't think nuclear is especially cost-effective at the moment, alas. San Onofre would be really, really expensive to fix at this point, and new reactors can't compete with gas.

              Why would PV not working at night prevent 25% RE penetration from being practical in, say, California or Texas?
              Why would you spend a lot of money on batteries when fixing the nuclear power generating system be better.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DanKegel View Post
                I don't think nuclear is especially cost-effective at the moment, alas. San Onofre would be really, really expensive to fix at this point, and new reactors can't compete with gas.
                Sure they can. Modern nuclear designs (like the AP600) require far less siting, less monitoring and are easier to maintain and refuel than older designs. And they are passively safe, which means less time/money for contingency planning.

                If you want greater solar penetration you need baseload generation. And if you care about CO2 emissions, that baseload generation better be nuclear.
                Why would PV not working at night prevent 25% RE penetration from being practical in, say, California or Texas?
                As I said before, you could probably get 20% penetration in many markets. 90% (your claim that we were discussing) is not practical.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                  Why would you spend a lot of money on batteries when fixing the nuclear power generating system be better.
                  Batteries wouldn't be an especially big part of the solution; did you read my earlier post?
                  https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...011#post337011
                  You'd need some batteries at night, sure, but other techniques -- wind, efficiency, load shifting, thermal energy storage -- would carry more of the nighttime load, I think.

                  As for nuclear power being cheaper, well, I'll believe it when I see it, I guess.

                  Comment


                  • Dan you do not have any workable solutions. You call yourself a Progressive Liberal when in fact there is no such thing. It is an Ideology of Obstructionism to block progress and prosperity for the masses. You want to control the masses and make them dependent on you for everything they need. That is why Liberals have got their butts kicked the last 8 years at all levels of goberment in the USA

                    If you really believed in clean energy you would be shouting from the tallest mountain in the USA to go nuclear. Not only does it solve all electric energy issues, it also solves lightweight transpiration. No not from storing energy in batteries as that is a loosing game being way to expensive and waste huge amounts of raw materials. Nope cars would use dirt cheap hydrogen fuel cells from all that waste heat from reactors to make massive amounts of basically free hydrogen. We have a known amount of some 10,000 to 10 million years of proven conventional nuclear fuel. It is dirt cheap and we do not need to import any of it. We should import all we can from Australia as they refuse to use it, so we use it for them and keep Chi-Coms and Ruskies from having it. That would be progress and a huge economy right here at home.

                    But nope Dan's will not allow that to happen. He wants you to suffer and rely on him for everything keeping you poor while he rules.

                    Does anyone know the aim of the Smart Grid GE and the Goberment are planning? I did not think so. Yes they are looking at controlling your energy use, but more importantly how to generate and distribute the power. It goes something like this. It will work like Cell Phone Tower Network operates. Small radio sites (power plants) covering a few miles of coverage around the tower like a cell. If one tower faults (generator), the surrounding cells (generators) up the power a bit and pick up the slack. An outage in one area does not affect any other areas. Pretty darn smart and well thought out. Extremely reliable with excellent redundancy

                    How do you do make that happen? With small breeder reactors. A reactor small enough to go in your basement and no one even knows it is there can supply 10,000 homes or a large Industrial complex. What you are hearing here, and debating on RE is just politics,noise, and a well thought out diversion. You will not have to look at acres of solar panels or huge wind farms occupying and wasting valuable real-estate. Completely out of site, compact, inexpensive, efficient, safe, reliable, and more high paying jobs than you can imagine.

                    To bad Dan is in the way of progress and prosperity. That is Dan's agenda he is hiding.
                    Last edited by Sunking; 12-02-2016, 04:11 PM.
                    MSEE, PE

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                      How do you do make that happen? With small breeder reactors. A reactor small enough to go in your basement and no one even knows it is there can supply 10,000 homes or a large Industrial complex.
                      Well, that'd be cool. When will it be on the market? And how would we prevent the fissile material they breed from falling into the wrong hands? (Maybe they'd be designed to not generate anything that could make a bomb?)

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuScale_Power is the only small reactor being licensed that I know of. That page quoted a cost of $5/watt, which seems about on par with the cost for molten salt solar systems quoted in http://labusinessjournal.com/news/20...roject-nevada/

                      I'd like to see all non-fossil-carbon power sources developed, including nuclear.
                      Molten salt solar seems like it ought to be able to address LA's evening demand in the 2020-2022 timeframe, should LADWP decide to pursue it.
                      Nuclear would probably take longer to build.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                        Dan you do not have any workable solutions. You call yourself a Progressive Liberal when in fact there is no such thing. It is an Ideology of Obstructionism to block progress and prosperity for the masses. You want to control the masses and make them dependent on you for everything they need. That is why Liberals have got their butts kicked the last 8 years at all levels of goberment in the USA

                        If you really believed in clean energy you would be shouting from the tallest mountain in the USA to go nuclear. Not only does it solve all electric energy issues, it also solves lightweight transpiration. No not from storing energy in batteries as that is a loosing game being way to expensive and waste huge amounts of raw materials. Nope cars would use dirt cheap hydrogen fuel cells from all that waste heat from reactors to make massive amounts of basically free hydrogen. We have a known amount of some 10,000 to 10 million years of proven conventional nuclear fuel. It is dirt cheap and we do not need to import any of it. We should import all we can from Australia as they refuse to use it, so we use it for them and keep Chi-Coms and Ruskies from having it. That would be progress and a huge economy right here at home.

                        But nope Dan's will not allow that to happen. He wants you to suffer and rely on him for everything keeping you poor while he rules.

                        Does anyone know the aim of the Smart Grid GE and the Goberment are planning? I did not think so. Yes they are looking at controlling your energy use, but more importantly how to generate and distribute the power. It goes something like this. It will work like Cell Phone Tower Network operates. Small radio sites (power plants) covering a few miles of coverage around the tower like a cell. If one tower faults (generator), the surrounding cells (generators) up the power a bit and pick up the slack. An outage in one area does not affect any other areas. Pretty darn smart and well thought out. Extremely reliable with excellent redundancy

                        How do you do make that happen? With small breeder reactors. A reactor small enough to go in your basement and no one even knows it is there can supply 10,000 homes or a large Industrial complex. What you are hearing here, and debating on RE is just politics,noise, and a well thought out diversion. You will not have to look at acres of solar panels or huge wind farms occupying and wasting valuable real-estate. Completely out of site, compact, inexpensive, efficient, safe, reliable, and more high paying jobs than you can imagine.

                        To bad Dan is in the way of progress and prosperity. That is Dan's agenda he is hiding.
                        I don't know if Dan K. has an agenda or not, or if he's well intentioned but simplistic in his thinking, or has more sinister objectives and goals, and don't much care.

                        I do know (or at least believe) his M.O. is what I've often seen for the last 40 years or so, and that's one of being part of what I've come to call the "you could just crowd" - as in "You could just do this and voila' - problem solved". To me, that amounts to straight line dead ends to non solutions driven by wishful, probably self centered and ignorant thinking. I see such attitudes and actions as those of "idea" people who are long on simplistic solutions to complex situations and short on the details and facts necessary to get to realistic and workable solutions.

                        I see such attitudes and actions as doing damage and hurting rather than helping. I started out that way, thinking R.E. a viable path to the future. I still do. However, back in the day, and having already been a peddler for about 10 years or so and therefore already seen and participated in a fair amount of the same B.S., I quickly formed the opinion that most such folks were little more than dreamers who wound up being shills for the R.E. conmen who prey on the ignorant, or were conmen and crooks themselves.

                        I'm about the biggest fan of workable and sensible R.E. utilization I know of. FWIW, attitudes and loose cannon stuff of the type such as Dan's ilk often pukes out only gives the Sunking's of the world more low hanging nonsense to pick and use to skewer the treehuggers. That does more damage to R.E. than a dozen Sunking type attitudes could ever do.

                        Not that it matters much now, but not wanting to be duped by the treehugger scammers, or eventually getting sucked into joining them is what drove me back to school in the mid '70's.

                        Caveat Emptor. Some things never change.

                        Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                          M.O. is what I've often seen for the last 40 years or so, and that's one of being part of what I've come to call the "you could just crowd" - as in "You could just do this and voila' - problem solved". To me, that amounts to straight line dead ends to non solutions driven by wishful, probably self centered and ignorant thinking.
                          Is the statement "small breeder reactors. A reactor small enough to go in your basement and no one even knows it is there can supply 10,000 homes or a large Industrial complex" an instance of "you could just do this and voila, problem solved" ?

                          I'm interested in real-world solutions. Really happy that wind and solar are in that category now for many applications.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DanKegel View Post

                            Is the statement "small breeder reactors. A reactor small enough to go in your basement and no one even knows it is there can supply 10,000 homes or a large Industrial complex" an instance of "you could just do this and voila, problem solved" ?

                            I'm interested in real-world solutions. Really happy that wind and solar are in that category now for many applications.
                            In all honesty, until one shows up in someone's basement and proves to be practical and cost effective, I'd wait to pass judgment, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

                            More honesty: IMO, If you are really concerned about real world solutions, it might be better for more R.E viability and acceptance if you avoided the pie-in-the-sky, gee-whiz, stuff written to look like it's available technology and stuck to stuff you've taken some time to really check out, along with the education needed to be able to make a distinction between what works or what's needed to make an idea viable from science fair quality wishing and consumer traps whose sole purpose is to separate the ignorant and/or desperate from their money. A sucker might be born every minute, but you've no need to help them get screwed sooner than they will be as your actions here often do by holding out false hopes.

                            What I often see out of your end of the corral is little more than pass along half truth and innuendo written by stooges that mostly helps no one, or some B.S. you conjured up out of what I can only guess is your ill informed imagination - your ideas about the viability of bifacial panels being one example.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                              until one shows up in someone's basement and proves to be practical and cost effective, I'd wait to pass judgment, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
                              Seems like a double standard -- you're giving the benefit of the doubt to fast basement breeder reactors, but not to solar?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                                Dan you do not have any workable solutions. You call yourself a Progressive Liberal when in fact there is no such thing.
                                I'm a progressive liberal. It's why I'm in engineering - to try to advance the state of the art, and solve some of our problems with technology.
                                It is an Ideology of Obstructionism to block progress and prosperity for the masses. You want to control the masses and make them dependent on you for everything they need.
                                Hmm, I don't. Maybe you're talking to the wrong liberals.
                                Does anyone know the aim of the Smart Grid GE and the Goberment are planning? I did not think so.
                                To make the grid more resilient to transient problems - loss of generation, loss of transmission and loss of top level control.
                                To make the grid more able to match load to generation.
                                To give people the ability to buy power on an open and free market, rather than on a fixed PUC schedule.
                                To improve grid reliability without having to overbuild for rare load conditions.


                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X