Tesla Wants to Build a Battery for Your House

[Sunking]

Speculative (likely an educated guess however given your background) but irrelevant since my statement was a best possible rough guess that still won't pan out. Its not a good deal assuming optimum pricing and zero degradation over time.

No speculation, right from the horses mouth. Solar City is the sole supplier. Go Google this quote:

SolarCity has quoted $7,140 for an outright purchase of the Powerwall

You will get dozens of hits from multiple media outlets quoting Solar City. The $3000 is is completely bogus.

[Sunking]

The 10 kw is restricted to ??

You cannot get more than 10 Kwh out of it. Why are you having such a hard time with it? To get the daily 7 Kwh Tesla has to restrict both DOD to 70%, and 2 Kwh max discharge rate to get the extra cycle life out of it. It is not that hard to understand. Unless of course you know nothing about batteries.

[Willy T]

You cannot get more than 10 Kwh out of it. Why are you having such a hard time with it? To get the daily 7 Kwh Tesla has to restrict both DOD to 70%, and 2 Kwh max discharge rate to get the extra cycle life out of it. It is not that hard to understand. Unless of course you know nothing about batteries.

Only you could understand that contorted explanation. More guessing on your part.

[Sunking]

Only you could understand that contorted explanation. More guessing on your part.

OK you do not know anything about batteries. My bad for trying to educate you.

[Willy T]

OK you do not know anything about batteries. My bad for trying to educate you.

I know plenty, we're talking about capacity and the 3 kw difference and you go off on cycle life and limiting the discharge rate. Keep on Guessing.

[Sunking]

I know plenty, we're talking about capacity and the 3 kw difference and you go off on cycle life and limiting the discharge rate. Keep on Guessing.

Who is guessing? Tesla clearly states they are the same battery and limit discharge rates and DOD. Anyone who knows anything about batteries knows volume and weight are directly related. You do not know that yet. If you did you would instantly know a 220 pound battery is the same as another identical 220 pound battery.

[bberry]

Tesla is probably using the same batteries as in their cars, but that is not certain. Even the 18650 form factor isn't certain to be produced by the gigafactory. I've seen speculation that a larger physical cylindrical size is probably more efficient to produce. As they plan the ramp up to massive production they need to question all legacy choices.
400v isn't a good choice choice for residential retrofit, but that is not the market they are designing for. The unit likely needs to be closing tied to inverter control functions, so the powerwall isn't suitable for a straight battery replacement anyways.

When companies come out with a more closed system, like Tesla Energy or Apple, the door is opened for companies to produce products that are more suitable for end user flexibility.

[Sunking]

Tesla is probably using the same batteries as in their cars, but that is not certain.

It is certain, they are using the same batteries that they put in their S models. If you have an half an hour to watch this video with Tesla VP Jim Chin. He tells you you exactly what inside the Powewall's. Same battery used in the S model with different controls to limit discharge and DOD rates to extend cycle life. He also states or admits Tesla 7 Kwh system will not be available because there is no way to integrate it into a Grid Tied System because state and federal regulations will not allow it to be used as intended for Peak Load shifting. Utilities and regulations will not allow a person to buy and store cheap Off-Peak power from the utility, then turn around and sell it at higher price Peak Hours for a profit. That would be stupid. What he admits is the market is utility scale and large commercial users using commercial sized systems. The consumer market is a Hoax.

What it all boils down to is hype on Musk part to get a False bump in stock price which has worked as of now. Great if you have Tesla stock and looking to sell a few shares.

400v isn't a good choice choice for residential retrofit, but that is not the market they are designing for. The unit likely needs to be closing tied to inverter control functions, so the powerwall isn't suitable for a straight battery replacement anyways.

That is explained in the video too. Tesla chose 400 volts because they use the same control equipment they use in their vehicles. They just adapted it to the smaller scale Powerwall. In other words they stuck with what they already have and know. Higher voltage has a lot of merits. But as you pointed out is not used in off grid applications. To make it work requires a DC-to-DC converter or another expensive egg in the basket until someone makes an Inverter to work with it which will be expensive.

[Willy T]

Once again only about 10% of whats been posted was actually said in the Video.

Tesla 7 Kwh system will not be available because there is no way to integrate it into a Grid Tied System because state and federal regulations will not allow it to be used as intended for Peak Load shifting.

Thats funny since the Fronius Hybrid Inverter is already being sold with their own battery that does exactly that and was never said in the video. In fact any hybrid Inverter will sell or can use Grid support.

[russ]

Once again only about 10% of whats been posted was actually said in the Video.

Thats funny since the Fronius Hybrid Inverter is already being sold with their own battery that does exactly that and was never said in the video. In fact any hybrid Inverter will sell or can use Grid support.

Explain please.

[Willy T]

Explain please.

Explain what ??

[russ]

Explain what ??

Your claims in the previous post. That should be a bit obvious.

[Willy T]

Your claims in the previous post. That should be a bit obvious.

Division manager Martin Hackl at Fronius said

The inverter that will be used is the Fronius Symo Hybrid, which also supports the Fronius Solar Battery already on the market.

This is Opinion and was never said.

He also states or admits Tesla 7 Kwh system will not be available because there is no way to integrate it into a Grid Tied System because state and federal regulations will not allow it to be used as intended for Peak Load shifting. Utilities and regulations will not allow a person to buy and store cheap Off-Peak power from the utility, then turn around and sell it at higher price Peak Hours for a profit.

Opinion

What it all boils down to is hype on Musk part to get a False bump in stock price which has worked as of now. Great if you have Tesla stock and looking to sell a few shares.

The Model S uses a 85 KW battery.

Same battery used in the S model with different controls to limit discharge and DOD rates to extend cycle life.

Was never said

Higher voltage has a lot of merits. But as you pointed out is not used in off grid applications. To make it work requires a DC-to-DC converter or another expensive egg in the basket until someone makes an Inverter to work with it which will be expensive.

Any grid tied Hybrid has a bi directional input and will sell based on battery voltage, it doesn't care what time of day it is. you set the high and low voltage and let it sell.

Any grid tied Hybrid can have the ACin set low and the support amps set to support the loads. You set the ACin to 5 amps and the support to 4 amps and the inverter & battery up to it's capacity.

[Amy@altE]

Thats funny since the Fronius Hybrid Inverter is already being sold with their own battery that does exactly that and was never said in the video. In fact any hybrid Inverter will sell or can use Grid support.

http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xbcr/SID-3DAF0C16-CD8F5048/fronius_international/SE_DS_Fronius_Energy_package_EN_386411_snapshot.pdf

[Sunking]

Thats funny since the Fronius Hybrid Inverter is already being sold with their own battery that does exactly that and was never said in the video. In fact any hybrid Inverter will sell or can use Grid support.

You can buy Bongs too, but that does not mean they are legal to use for the intended purpose.