PA rate review - PECO area

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  • bonaire
    Solar Fanatic
    • Jul 2012
    • 717

    #1

    PA rate review - PECO area

    Thought I'd throw this together to show that electric rates in my area are actually decreasing.
    Here are the variable amounts from my Bill for some prior months going back to 02/2011.

    02/08/11 (reading date)
    Generation Charges 1,283 kWh X $0.09070 116.37
    Alt. Energy Portfolio Standard 1,283 kWh X 0.00120 1.54
    Transmission Charges 1,283 kWh X 0.00730 9.37
    Distribution Charges 1,283 kWh X 0.05960 76.47
    0.1588/kWh

    09/08/11 - higher summer rates
    Generation Charges 500 kWh X $0.09550 47.75
    Generation Charges 1,595 kWh X 0.10820 172.58
    Alt. Energy Portfolio Standard 2,095 kWh X 0.00140 2.93
    Transmission Charges 2,095 kWh X 0.00730 15.29
    Distribution Charges 2,095 kWh X 0.05960 124.86
    0.1734/kWh

    01/09/12
    Generation Charges 1,404 kWh X $0.09180 128.89
    Transmission Charges 1,404 kWh X 0.00740 10.39
    Distribution Charges 1,404 kWh X 0.06000 84.24
    0.1592/kWh

    09/05/12 - higher summer rates
    Generation Charges 500 kWh X $0.07830 39.15
    Generation Charges 1,831 kWh X 0.08360 153.07
    Alt. Energy Portfolio Standard 2,331 kWh X 0.00070 1.63
    Transmission Charges 2,331 kWh X 0.00740 17.25
    Distribution Charges 2,331 kWh X 0.06000 139.86
    0.1505/kWh - far cheaper than prior year

    I commissioned our Solar PV array on 12/15/12
    (a lot of clouds since this date)
    The real benefit will begin next month with a full month of
    production, no impact by the two test dates where I produced
    75 kWh and got billed for it in this bill.

    01/08/13
    Generation Charges 1,134 kWh X $0.07660 86.86
    Alt. Energy Portfolio Standard 1,134 kWh X 0.00070 0.79
    Transmission Charges 1,134 kWh X 0.00960 10.89
    Distribution Charges 1,134 kWh X 0.06190 70.19
    0.1488/kWh


    The .1488 is the cheapest I've paid for electricity in years. I have a graph going back to 2007 which showed rates as high as .176/kWh. Back then, into 2009/2010, there was a lot of incentive by the PA Sunshine Program to incite Solar PV installations. And SRECs were "higher" then at $300/ea. So, a variety of solar installers popped up back then.

    PA has Generator competition now and the big issue is that the competition lowers their comparable Generation Charges.
    What our PECO electric POCO does is lowers the Generation charges and then increases Distribution Charges. They charge Dist. for
    the competitive Generators and as such, they'll recoup customer loss who shopped-around by charging an ever-increasing Dist. charge for controlling the wires.

    Generation charges dropping is due to increased use of Natural Gas at a cheaper rate. It is also synthetic due to the increased Distribution charges.

    Conclusion - cheaper rates now in January, 2013 than 2012 and 2011.
    I don't know if other states where Solar PV installs are being done more (CA, NJ, LA, AZ, NM, etc.) but in PA, the future of solar installations really lies in large commercial installs and not much in terms of homeowners. Our rates from PECO are higher than nearby counties (as much as 50% more than Lancaster County with PP&L). This could reverse but takes a lot of effort on the part of the electric POCOs to request rate increases through the state energy commissions. Solar installs in PA will wane for residential arrays due to no more state incentive available. The only way to really sell solar to residential owners in PA will be to find those with the personal incentive to do a project. There may be more and more DIY installs going on out there where people buy product themselves and use an electrician to do the installation. Seems to me that if someone is considering purchase of a system and would be even taking out a HELOC or other type of loan to do it - really think about doing a lease program rather than purchase. At least you don't have to pay interest on a loan to pay for the system that would have a long payback period like here in PA.

    Example of how to look at this economically. If you put in an $8KW system for $35K and pay cash, your ROI is about 12 years in PA (not including inverter replacement). If you instead put $35K into a High Yield corporate bond fund that has an annual return of 10%, you are up to $38.5K after one year. Do that for 10 years, with an average return of 7%, you will have $68K. After 12 years when solar has finally reached ROI, you then are saving perhaps $4K per year on the electric bill. But you will be making $6K on the investment. We don't know how the economy will be doing in 10 years - and what the power costs will be then. But we are pretty sure in PA that electric rates won't double in 12 years unless laws and legislation are enacted to increase costs. Returns on investments are also of some risk. Yes, the negative to the investing is you pay taxes on your gains. Fine - we all know that is to be accounted for. Let's say you make a net 5% per year on the investment. After 12 years, you have $62K. Investing has a compounding factor if you re-invest dividends while you don't get compounding with solar PV, you get .5% lower production per year.

    Solar PV usually won't save you money - you can do far better in the stock market with proper investing. There is risk in doing either and of course, living efficiently and conservation are even cheaper to perform and payback is immediate. Why did I install a Solar PV array? For the life experience, because I'm interested in the technology, for the slight chance electric prices go up some day. I don't have plans to do any batteries or any kind of "prepping". But I think it's cool technology. I wouldn't have done it without the federal tax credit. We don't expect to see any SREC incentives of any value available for years, either.

    With lower electric prices now from the POCO(s) and with flat or perhaps ever-increasing gasoline prices, this is a good time to consider electric cars going forward. With leases such as the new 2013 Nissan Leaf at $199/mo, commuters have an opportunity to save dollars switching to electricity for their auto fuel and that can save more per year than a Solar PV system would. Do both if you can afford it and could take advantage of the tax credits that are avaiable to you (not for leasing an EV, just for purchase). If you believe in this political banter about "North American Energy Independence by <some random year>" then this is one way to participate.
    PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono
  • rhawkman
    Solar Fanatic
    • Jan 2013
    • 135

    #2
    Good info and gives a lot to think about.

    Comment

    • Sunking
      Solar Fanatic
      • Feb 2010
      • 23301

      #3
      Well that is what is happening nationally as electric prices have been going down since 2008. Since 2008 nationally is down 16 to 18%, and some states like TX are down 24%. The trend is expected to continue.
      MSEE, PE

      Comment

      • rhawkman
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jan 2013
        • 135

        #4
        If any of you rich people want to financially back a scientific experiment, I will gladly let you buy me a bigass solar setup and a nice stock portfolio and I will happily tell you which one does better. Your ROI will be the warm feeling of knowledge.

        Many years ago I made an unconscious decision to avoid money and instead invest in two wives and four kids.

        Comment

        • Sunking
          Solar Fanatic
          • Feb 2010
          • 23301

          #5
          Originally posted by rhawkman
          Many years ago I made an unconscious decision to avoid money and instead invest in two wives and four kids.
          Next time use a Rent-A-Wife for a night or two. They never take you serious and get pregnant, plus they are less expensive.
          MSEE, PE

          Comment

          • rhawkman
            Solar Fanatic
            • Jan 2013
            • 135

            #6
            No kidding. Why is that illegal? Stupid laws. Don't get me wrong, wouldn't trade my kids for anything. But damned if they aren't a more expensive hobby than solar or auto racing or pretty much anything.

            Comment

            • bonaire
              Solar Fanatic
              • Jul 2012
              • 717

              #7
              Originally posted by rhawkman
              If any of you rich people want to financially back a scientific experiment, I will gladly let you buy me a bigass solar setup and a nice stock portfolio and I will happily tell you which one does better. Your ROI will be the warm feeling of knowledge.

              Many years ago I made an unconscious decision to avoid money and instead invest in two wives and four kids.
              Did someone say to you as a child... "May you live in interesting times."

              Wives and kids have very low ROI !
              PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

              Comment

              • SoCalsolar
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jun 2012
                • 331

                #8
                I envy your bill

                I envy your bill its just so simple. One rate, no tiered structure. No Time of use, no local fees or taxes. no nuclear decommissioning fee, no connection charges, no state taxes. Wow you just pay for the power that you use to be generated, transmitted, and distributed.


                Here is what we get in CA 17.2% increases over the next two years including a 5% retroactive increase.

                Comment

                • Sunking
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 23301

                  #9
                  Originally posted by SoCalsolar
                  I envy your bill its just so simple. One rate, no tiered structure. No Time of use, no local fees or taxes. no nuclear decommissioning fee, no connection charges, no state taxes. Wow you just pay for the power that you use to be generated, transmitted, and distributed.


                  Here is what we get in CA 17.2% increases over the next two years including a 5% retroactive increase.

                  http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov...-hike-20121130
                  You live in CA and got what you asked for.
                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment

                  • rhawkman
                    Solar Fanatic
                    • Jan 2013
                    • 135

                    #10
                    After many years in Nebraska with some of those little extras added on, it was cool to see my Oklahoma bill. $6 for my security light and .072/kwh. They do round up the bill tho, so my 57.35 bill turns into $58.

                    Comment

                    • bonaire
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • Jul 2012
                      • 717

                      #11
                      That article is nuts. It says it is a 5% increase yet only results in a $7 increase on the average customer. I guess that is due to many small apartments or other type of customer. Bigger users must be looking at a $20 or more bump. I'm sure many are already saving by using nat. gas cooking and heating and hot water. This will translate into businesses raising some costs to customers such as hotels, anything coming out of factories, etc.

                      The increase is not sustainable ongoing as if it were, CA will have a top tier $1.00 kWh cost within 15 years.
                      PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

                      Comment

                      • rhawkman
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 135

                        #12
                        Yeah, that math doesn't add up. I particularly liked this line "while its ratepayers are protected". Apparently in Cali protected is another word for raped. They wanted nearly 17%!

                        Comment

                        • SoCalsolar
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • Jun 2012
                          • 331

                          #13
                          That's SCE

                          Every year when SCE asks for a rate increase the basis of their rational is that the average electric bill in CA is lower than the national average. The average bill in CA is about $100. Most people in SCE territory have a tiered structure with shifting baselines that account for seasonal power usage as well as micro climate adjustments (beach,inland, desert,mountain). The basic tiers are about .13 for 400kwhrs .16 for the next 150kwhrs .23 for the next 250kwhrs, than .26 for the next 400/kwhrs and .31/kwhr after that.

                          So the last summer bill before the original poster went solar (2300kwhrs) would have cost about $575 for a month of electricity. Now I'm sure that this usage must be very high for PA and that bonaire has a 4000 sqft house, a pool, and keeps the thermostat at 62 degrees in the summer.

                          The last bill with solar would be about $225 for a months (1150kwhrs) electricity.

                          We do have a lot of natural gas and moderate weather but that $100 average still seems a bit far fetched but I'm sure that a billion dollar monopoly would not try and deceive me just to make a few more bucks. Ethics over dollars just like every other multi-billion dollar enterprise I know of.

                          Whats the price of little piece of land in PA right about now? What could I guy get for $400,000 these days? and its not that cold is it?

                          Rhawkman these aren't rate increases they want they got each of these. If you wanted to read the whole 400 pg rate case you will find language that (I'm paraphrasing here) that the CPUC took into account the unsettled economy and refused to raise the rates some absurd amount like 35%. No we get these increases every year about 6% this isn't anything new for CA been going on the last 40 years.

                          Comment

                          • rhawkman
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Jan 2013
                            • 135

                            #14
                            Ah, they are so generous. They said they were going to disembowel everyone but due to their kindness they only stabbed them in the stomach with a steak knife. How beneficent of them.

                            Comment

                            • bonaire
                              Solar Fanatic
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 717

                              #15
                              So the last summer bill before the original poster went solar (2300kwhrs) would have cost about $575 for a month of electricity. Now I'm sure that this usage must be very high for PA and that bonaire has a 4000 sqft house, a pool, and keeps the thermostat at 62 degrees in the summer.
                              Nope. Actually, my summer peak is due to my in-laws visiting with their RV. 50A power to their RV which runs two on-top AC units, they run their computers all day, etc. Yeah, it is a power-hogging situation. The house is 2400sqft. and I have a really leak-prone house. The heat pump runs pretty efficiently, but does run all the time when it's really hot in August. Next project will be to shore up some leaks. I also bought my Chevy Volt in early July 2012 so that takes 13 kWh a night to re-fill. The 09/05/2012 bill reading is for all of August. I was commuting a lot in the Volt and it was the hottest month of the year. When we had our power bill up in the .176/kWh range and our water well pump failing, we did have a 2900 kWh month a few years ago. Pump has been replaced since then and it made at least a 500 kWh/month difference. Shutting off a hot-tub also makes a big difference

                              My goal when the in-laws were not parked with their RV in the driveway was 1100 kWh/month in spring/fall - we've hit that and were down to about 880 one month. With a 240V water well pump and a stay-at-home wife, with two teenagers, we do use more power than the typical DINK family in California. It's nice not to have both parents working to keep the budget balanced.

                              Whats the price of little piece of land in PA right about now? What could I guy get for $400,000 these days? and its not that cold is it?
                              You could do *great* in PA with 400K. Also, back in my hometown in Western NY, you could do even greater. You could buy a 20 acre farm in the southtowns of Buffalo. If you don't mind a few months of snow, it's fantastic up there. People say cold is a negative but the change of seasons is a great thing. I couldn't pay CA real estate rates just to get away from the winter cold snap. Plus, the taxes there and now the electric rates are well above NY State's state of taxation.
                              PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

                              Comment

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