Sunpower system in San Diego - Good deal?

[bstr]

I see. Well, I guess I came late after the link was removed. It looked like a request for feedback in May with good discussion followed up four months later with results if his decision. The search that led me to this site/thread was for just that reason, to find someone who has done the homework and has been through the whole process. The only thing that could have been more helpful is seeing all the bids next to each company's name. No link required, really.

If anyone has recommendations for other suppliers in San Diego, I would like to hear about them.

I think that there is a distinction between a known regular touting a particular supplier and including a link and new member, who might actually be the supplier, putting in a rave review with a link to the supplier's website.
Just having the embedded link here will raise the supplier website's search engine rating.

[inetdog]

Sean, thanks for posting to Yelp. I contacted the company you recommended for a quote.

Russ, I don't see why laying out facts about suppliers is an issue here on this forum. It would be one thing to spew meaningless accolades, but providing something useful with quantifiable data is valuable to others. I agree, it reads like a big kudos for xxx company, but then again this thread is a big ad for Sunpower, isn't it?

Cheers!

I think that there is a distinction between a known regular touting a particular supplier and including a link and new member, who might actually be the supplier, putting in a rave review with a link to the supplier's website.
Just having the embedded link here will raise the supplier website's search engine rating.

[bstr]

Sean, thanks for posting to Yelp. I contacted the company you recommended for a quote.

Russ, I don't see why laying out facts about suppliers is an issue here on this forum. It would be one thing to spew meaningless accolades, but providing something useful with quantifiable data is valuable to others. I agree, it reads like a big kudos for xxx company, but then again this thread is a big ad for Sunpower, isn't it?

Cheers!

I wanted to post an update here as thanks for the guidance I received on my initial question. Here is the review I just posted on Yelp.

TLDR version (After two full months of lower electricity bills, I am very happy with my Sunpower lease. Payback within 5 years on a 20-year lease with zero maintenance/replacement costs.)

I got bids from 5 different solar installation companies, including 3 bids with identical specs for the Sunpower pre-paid lease. The Sunpower lease program is an inexpensive, low risk way to go solar. Sunpower agrees to install and maintain the equipment, replace any failing equipment, and guarantees to generate at least a specific amount of electricity every year for 20 years. I pay a low up-front amount (subsidized by incentives and tax breaks that Sunpower receives) that I will recoup in 4-6 years from electricity savings.

I selected xxx Solar over the other 2 Sunpower lease installers for several reasons:
- xxx Solar offered a comprehensive warranty for all the work, protecting my home from any collateral damage from working on my roof
- xxx Solar has good online reviews and I liked the people I talked to
- xxx Solar offered the lowest price

I wanted to wait to post my review until I had 2 electricity bills that were fully "solar". Here are my electricity bills for the past few months.

Apr25: $329.90
May24: $341.98
Jun25: $391.80
Jul25: $301.89
Aug24: $ 0.00
Sep24: $ 28.00

The July bill had solar for part of it, but as expected, the system is saving me about $300-$350 per month. This gives the system an ROI of just under 5 years, but I will continue to generate electricity for another 15 years with zero maintenance/replacement costs.

I was very pleased with xxx Solar. They worked with me to configure the panels on my roof so that they are nearly invisible from the front of the house. They worked with me on the layout of wiring and cables so it looks very clean. They are a truly professional outfit and I recommend them highly.

[russ]

You can be as happy as you wish but don't try flogging a particular supplier.

[sduser]

I wanted to post an update here as thanks for the guidance I received on my initial question. Here is the review I just posted on Yelp.

TLDR version (After two full months of lower electricity bills, I am very happy with my Sunpower lease. Payback within 5 years on a 20-year lease with zero maintenance/replacement costs.)

I got bids from 5 different solar installation companies, including 3 bids with identical specs for the Sunpower pre-paid lease. The Sunpower lease program is an inexpensive, low risk way to go solar. Sunpower agrees to install and maintain the equipment, replace any failing equipment, and guarantees to generate at least a specific amount of electricity every year for 20 years. I pay a low up-front amount (subsidized by incentives and tax breaks that Sunpower receives) that I will recoup in 4-6 years from electricity savings.

I selected xxx Solar over the other 2 Sunpower lease installers for several reasons:
- xxx Solar offered a comprehensive warranty for all the work, protecting my home from any collateral damage from working on my roof
- xxx Solar has good online reviews and I liked the people I talked to
- xxx Solar offered the lowest price

I wanted to wait to post my review until I had 2 electricity bills that were fully "solar". Here are my electricity bills for the past few months.

Apr25: $329.90
May24: $341.98
Jun25: $391.80
Jul25: $301.89
Aug24: $ 0.00
Sep24: $ 28.00

The July bill had solar for part of it, but as expected, the system is saving me about $300-$350 per month. This gives the system an ROI of just under 5 years, but I will continue to generate electricity for another 15 years with zero maintenance/replacement costs.

I was very pleased with xxx Solar. They worked with me to configure the panels on my roof so that they are nearly invisible from the front of the house. They worked with me on the layout of wiring and cables so it looks very clean. They are a truly professional outfit and I recommend them highly.

[KRenn]

Other than an occasional rinsing with a garden hose, a properly installed solar system requires no maintenance. And inverter prices are dropping so rapidly that in 12 to 13 years when the inverter fails, its price will be a non issue when compared to the return on investment when buying instead of leasing. Solar system maintenance is simply a myth that was created by the leasing companies for the purpose of scaring consumers into signing their nonsense leasing contracts that are filled with misinformation such as "guaranteed early buyout amounts". The IRS man shall cometh.

I don't think anyone is offering any "guaranteed buyout's" anymore. The main allure of leasing is that A. It costs less than purchasing, whether prepaid or monthly and B. The system is insured and given a warranty by the same party, as long as both of those are no longer true, leasing will die out.

Leasing will continue to dominate the market share in the residential sector as long as the IRS continues with their current "fair market" pricing policies. Those hold-out dealer's who think they are standing on principle by not offering leases are simply being penny-wise and pound-foolish, making themselves less competitive in a highly competitive market.

[Peak Power]

"and then be on the hook for maintenance."

Hi all,

I have read through a lot of the posts on this forum and I am impressed by how much knowledge people are sharing about solar PV systems.

I am considering a Sunpower lease or buy in the San Diego area:

28 Sunpower E20/327 solar panels
2 SPR-6000m 6kW inverters
This will generate approximately 14,872 kWH per year.

Financing options I am considering:
Buy for $33,000 (this is after federal tax credit and state rebates)
Prepaid 20-year lease for $16,500

Our current electricity usage is approximately 18,000 kWH per year, so we pay a lot of high tier rates. This works out to us currently paying about $0.27 per kWH during the summer and $0.32 per kWH during the winter. It is about $5,000 per year in electricity from SDGE.

Based on my usage and the cost of the lease, I could see a full return on my investment in as little as 4-5 years. This really seems too good to be true. I understand that Sunpower can depreciate the full retail value of the system under a lease which is why they can offer it at a discount compared to the purchase price even though they must maintain and insure the system under the lease. I would prefer to not have a 20 year lease, but it wouldn't make any sense to pay the additional $16,500 to buy the system and then be on the hook for maintenance.

On a pre-paid lease, I would have the option to buy it out for FMV in 7 years, or keep the lease to the end. I'm not sure why I would want to buy it out though since I'd have to maintain it and replace the inverters when they inevitably fail during the 20 years of original lease. With the prepaid lease, they even guarantee my production every year.

So, my questions for the experts:
- Am I missing something big here? Is this deal really as good as it looks?
- Is there any way to estimate the FMV at the 7 year mark? Has anyone gone through the process of buying out their lease for FMV? I don't think these deals have been around for 7 years yet...

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Other than an occasional rinsing with a garden hose, a properly installed solar system requires no maintenance. And inverter prices are dropping so rapidly that in 12 to 13 years when the inverter fails, its price will be a non issue when compared to the return on investment when buying instead of leasing. Solar system maintenance is simply a myth that was created by the leasing companies for the purpose of scaring consumers into signing their nonsense leasing contracts that are filled with misinformation such as "guaranteed early buyout amounts". The IRS man shall cometh.

[kimo]

I am not getting a system anytime soon. But will note some good points you guys made if I decide to do the lease route. A secondary roof warranty from the installer is a great idea.

[KRenn]

My roof is concrete tile, sloped, about 4 years old.

From the Sunpower lease agreement:

Lessor hereby assigns a warranty provided by the Dealer/Installer whereby the Dealer/Installer warrants that, if in the course of the
installation work, Dealer/Installer is required to penetrate the roof of the Premises and thereby causes damage to areas of the roof that
are within a three (3) inch radius of roof penetrations, Dealer/Installer will repair such damage for your benefit, at any time during the
period from the date Dealer/Installer begins installation of the System at the Premises through the longer of (i) one (1) year following the
Lease Term Start Date and (ii) the length of any existing warranty on the roof of the Premises up to but not exceeding five (5) years.

So, it's covered for up to five years if you have an existing roof warranty. Only one year if you don't. The warranty from Sunpower itself is weak because it is limited to 1 or 5 years, and only to areas within 3 inches of a roof penetration. Well, that's something I guess, but I'm worried about the other tiles that the workers walk on during the installation process and any leak damage done inside the house. Seems like with the Sunpower warranty, they could cause all kinds of roof damage and then come out and apply some 3 inch radius patches around the posts. I'm exaggerating a bit here, but that's not really good enough.

It's a very good reason to get a secondary warranty on all roof damage directly from the installer. Also, need to check the credentials and references of the installer since they will be the one in a position to damage your roof. Still, there is always going to be some risk.

The roofing should be a fairly straightforward and easy process if the company is following the correct procedures. They should be able to justify their approach to mounting the panels and sealing off the roof based on existing roofing code which requires flashing and more.

[KRenn]

And it is likely that they artificially inflate the cost they report to the IRS to get a higher tax credit.

Treasury started cracking down on that as too many companies were over-inflating the price based on FMV, now they scrutinize it far more closely.

[Mattsd]

And it is likely that they artificially inflate the cost they report to the IRS to get a higher tax credit.

[russ]

I agree completely. In the end, it's all about saving money and that means limiting the upfront costs. I am prejudiced against leases because it is so easy to hide costs in there and a lot can happen in 20 years... In this instance here though, the lease is SO much less expensive because of the tax write-offs that the lessor gets that it seems worthwhile.

Too bad the loony politicians can't see fit to give the breaks to the end user rather than money men!

[sduser]

Another thread points out the importance of having a signed document in hand with the guaranteed final costs including all taxes, permits etc - some people will try to wiggle out if they can.

Any monitoring should be explicitly spelled out including any costs

I agree completely. In the end, it's all about saving money and that means limiting the upfront costs. I am prejudiced against leases because it is so easy to hide costs in there and a lot can happen in 20 years... In this instance here though, the lease is SO much less expensive because of the tax write-offs that the lessor gets that it seems worthwhile.

[sduser]

What kind of roof? My flat foam roof was in need of a recoat of the elastomeric top layer so I coordinated that work with the solar installer essentially getting the solar panel mounts/standoffs put in first then having the roofers foam and seal the mounts then coat with the elastomer. When the coating had set after a few days, the solar installers returned to put the panels on. My Sunpower lease only warrants the roof penetrations against leakage for a year; with the way I did it, the roofers warrant it for 10. Not sure if you could do a similar coordination with a pitched roof.

My roof is concrete tile, sloped, about 4 years old.

From the Sunpower lease agreement:

Lessor hereby assigns a warranty provided by the Dealer/Installer whereby the Dealer/Installer warrants that, if in the course of the
installation work, Dealer/Installer is required to penetrate the roof of the Premises and thereby causes damage to areas of the roof that
are within a three (3) inch radius of roof penetrations, Dealer/Installer will repair such damage for your benefit, at any time during the
period from the date Dealer/Installer begins installation of the System at the Premises through the longer of (i) one (1) year following the
Lease Term Start Date and (ii) the length of any existing warranty on the roof of the Premises up to but not exceeding five (5) years.

So, it's covered for up to five years if you have an existing roof warranty. Only one year if you don't. The warranty from Sunpower itself is weak because it is limited to 1 or 5 years, and only to areas within 3 inches of a roof penetration. Well, that's something I guess, but I'm worried about the other tiles that the workers walk on during the installation process and any leak damage done inside the house. Seems like with the Sunpower warranty, they could cause all kinds of roof damage and then come out and apply some 3 inch radius patches around the posts. I'm exaggerating a bit here, but that's not really good enough.

It's a very good reason to get a secondary warranty on all roof damage directly from the installer. Also, need to check the credentials and references of the installer since they will be the one in a position to damage your roof. Still, there is always going to be some risk.

[russ]

Another thread points out the importance of having a signed document in hand with the guaranteed final costs including all taxes, permits etc - some people will try to wiggle out if they can.

Any monitoring should be explicitly spelled out including any costs