New to Forum. a little confused

[Mike West]

Hello all,

I just stumbled across this site and it looks like there is a lot of good information to be had. Unfortunately, it is a little overwhelming. I am considering solar but have many concerns.

We are not in a position to purchase a system right now and have talked to several vendors about a lease. The lease option seems to resolve our maintenance concerns, since the leasing company will have to maintain the system (or is that a bad assumption?).

We live in El Dorado Hills, Ca 95762 and our electrical consumption has averaged 1120 Killowatts per month over the last eighteen months. Our electric costs for that period was $ 3945.79--$ 219.21 per month (am I calculating correctly when I come up with a cost of $ .1957 per killawatt?). Of course that is based on PG&Es rates in 2010 and 2011.

A local installer, Solar Universe, has proposed a SunCap Financial leased system with zero down and zero escalation in the rate.

Their proposal is for a 5.28 kw system with SunTech panels, Enphase inverters, Locus monitoring and an IronRidge mounting system--whatever all that means. Their calculation for the system cost is $ 4.18 per Watt (DC) and $ 4.81 per Watt (AC). (is that good or bad?)

Of course, reading the lease is an experience and almost enough for me to chuck the whole program. Their attorneys are convinced that every customer is a deadbeat and the language reinforces that mind set.

Their lease says that my cost will be $ 127.66 per month, including taxes, for 20 years. They want to have access to my checking account so that they can remove the monthly payment--a real turn off.

Their performance guarantee also states that panel productiviity will decrease by a little over 9% over the 20 year term of the lease. The production guarantee ranges from 7677 kWh the first year to 6979 in year 20. That dosen't look to me to be much more than half of our demonstrated usage. Should that be an area for concern?

This looks like the best of three proposals that I have received. Solar City is in second place.

My questions are, is this a reasonable lease? Is this the equipment that we want or is there better available (they charge more for panels made in the US)? Will the system cut our electric costs in half-as promised? Is there a better option out there? Should I chuck the whole plan?

Thanks for your time and advice!

[Naptown]

OK
Search leases on the forum and there are numerous threads with numerous opinions.
A quick way to judge however is as follows Kind of a question and answer excersise.
If you are doing a monthly payment lease do you intend to stay in the house for the entire lease term?
If yes great if no check the requirements for transfer. A new owner may not qualify to transfer the lease leaving you to prepay any balance on the lease.
If you go monthly add any downpayment and the lease monthly rent over the 20 years how much is it?
Compare to what an outright purchase would cost, remember to deduct any state, utility and federal credits/rebates.
If a no money down system check what the current cost of electricity is in KWH. Take the annual production numbers the leasing company gives you and multiply by the amount they predict. (go to PVwatts to check that they are being honest about the production)
So say they are selling you a 5KW system that will produce 6000 KWH per year and the lease payment is $80.00 per month and you are paying $.15 a KWH for electricity.
The lease payments are $960.00 per year
The equivalent electricity costs the system produces is $900.00
The system saves you $60.00 per year of $5.00 per month.
Plug in your own numbers and see what you come up with for savings.
Next scenario is an outright purchase
the system they proposed say costs what you said at 4.18 per watt DC ( not bad actually)
Now you purchase the system at the same cost
There will be an immediate savings of 30% from the federal government, plus whatever state local and utility rebates are available. WWW.dsireusa.org is a site to check what is available. They can be substantial in CA.
Figure that out and come back with what you found out.

[russ]

If the government wishes to subsidize solar - I can not understand why tax law allows a third party to take advantage of a loophole while the homeowner foots the bill.

There is no reason to create a cash cow for the leasing companies - all benefit should go to the homeowner!

[Larry_Rooftop]

Lease vs Purchase

$4.18 per watt seems low, You need to work the numbers.
You may be better buying the system and taking all the incentives and credits

$127.66 mo. x 240 mo = $30,638.40 overall system cost

5.28 kW system x 4.18 installed (low) = $22,070.00

[Naptown]

$4.18 per watt seems low, You need to work the numbers.
You may be better buying the system and taking all the incentives and credits

$127.66 mo. x 240 mo = $30,638.40 overall system cost

5.28 kW system x 4.18 installed (low) = $22,070.00

$4.18 a watt is not far off of retail pricing within a few cents.

[danleaf]

Hello,

Like the tread title says I am new to the forum and a bit confused. I just ordered a pallet of 22 JAP6 72-285 from Sunelec and I am now in process of finding a good way to install 20 of them on my roof. The city requires 36" setback from the ridge and a 36" path from the eave to the ridge. This really changed my initial lay out. I totally agree that the best mount system would connect to the trusses but looking at the Ironridge standoff I am confused how can I get all 4 screws in the truss. Is this type of standoff design to be placed anywhere of the roof?

http://www.ecodirect.com/IronRidge-Aluminum-Standoff-6-Flush-Mount-Mill-p/ironridge-51-6006-500l.htm

Second question is about the position of the rails. Horizontal rail (parallel to the ridge) is what Ironridge assistant designer gives me regardless of the panel position (portrait or landscape). For a landscape panel position, vertical rails (perpendicular to the ridge) make more sense to me assuming I can get them to align with the trusses or I dare to use the Ironridge standoffs that I believe were design to be placed anywhere on the roof.

Also, is it OK for the panels to stick out about 6" to side the eave? Or this is up to the inspector?

Thank you.
Dan.

[Naptown]

You are a victim of the NFPA1-2012 or in english the 2012 fire code.
It is a pandora's box the way it is written. the best way to determine what you can do is to go down to the AHJ with a sketch of your roof and see what they will allow.
I have seen that code interpreted to mean each end or just one. best to ask.

[chrisc1093]

My personal opinion, go with solar city, numbers aside, Solar City has the best hands down customer care, they may charge a bit more then the other guy, but it will be worth it (they also monitor your system) in the long run

[Naptown]

My personal opinion, go with solar city, numbers aside, Solar City has the best hands down customer care, they may charge a bit more then the other guy, but it will be worth it (they also monitor your system) in the long run

Too bad he bought the system components already for a DIY install.
And being a pro in this business they do not offer the best deals and take forever from what I have heard to install. (however this seems to be the norm with leasing)

[danleaf]

Roof 05.PDFRoof 04.PDFRoof 05.PDFRoof 04.PDF

You are a victim of the NFPA1-2012 or in english the 2012 fire code.
It is a pandora's box the way it is written. the best way to determine what you can do is to go down to the AHJ with a sketch of your roof and see what they will allow.
I have seen that code interpreted to mean each end or just one. best to ask.

I just finished two possible layouts. I will talk to the city people. What is AHJ?

Roof 04.PDF

Roof 05.PDF

[danleaf]

My personal opinion, go with solar city, numbers aside, Solar City has the best hands down customer care, they may charge a bit more then the other guy, but it will be worth it (they also monitor your system) in the long run

I need to own the system. Once is up and running I plan to work on getting the PV system connected to my Nissan Leaf, to use/charge the car battery during an outage.

[Naptown]

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I just finished two possible layouts. I will talk to the city people. What is AHJ?

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AHJ = Authority having jurisdiction. English translation The local inspector

[danleaf]

AHJ said it is OK with them if the panels stick outside the roof, as long as the support manufacturer is OK with that. I emailed Ironridge to ask.

With under clamps, I will only stick about 1" at one side and 1.6" at the other side.

Roof 06-2.pdf

With 6" stand offs and the L brackets the panels will be close to 7" off the roof, unlikely 1.6" outside the roof edge will have an impact. The design requirement for this area are 105mph wind and 25 psf snow. Ironridge website calculates that even at 140mph wind and 30psf snow I will still be OK.

Next week I will move ahead with buying the supports. Here is the list, any inputs are welcome:

Mounting Hardware.JPG

I have (almost) decided for this inverter http://www.civicsolar.com/product/kaco-5002xi

[danleaf]

And here is my work for today, I did a lot of reading too:

Electrical Diagram.pdf

[inetdog]

AHJ = Authority having jurisdiction. English translation The local inspector

More properly the local inspector's boss or agency. The AHJ is not necessarily the inspector personally. Sometimes that makes a difference when something is in dispute.