A side effect of solar incentive

[solar_newbie]

Every of us just talk about solar incentive, how it will offset electric usage, how we can play with TOU to consume more electric than product them. However, we just forgot one things. When there is more electric, we tend to use more. Like people tend to consume more when buying stuffs from Costco wholesale.
I am not sure if it is the same from others. But I see my family starts using more electric than we used to use because everyone know we do not pay for high price.
The question is if Solar helps to reduce electric consumption or increase it?

[inetdog]

And the answer is yes.

I do not recall seeing any studies that broke the data down this way.
My gut feeling is that it both decreases the amount of grid energy used and increases the amount of energy fed to local loads.

[J.P.M.]

When the perception is we pay less for something, the tendency is to pay less attention to it. Perhaps an analogy might be gasoline prices and miles driven. Prices go down, gasoline usage goes up. One way to reduce consumption of anything is to hit people in the wallet.

Seems like little more than human nature to me. That's just the way it is. Lots of anecdotal evidence in my HOA. I'm not sure a study is needed to confirm what looks like a blinding flash of the obvious to me - other than to dole out some white collar welfare to confirm, or reconfirm what most folks with an ounce of common sense already know.

[SunEagle]

I just read an article today stating that even with the lower gasoline prices people are now purchasing the higher octane type and using more. So instead of the car owner saving $40/month they only save $22/month because they are spending their savings on more fuel.

Some people are kind of strange. Savings for them is like money burning a hole in their pocket. They have to spend it (or waste it) instead of putting into a saving plan for that rainy day purchase (like a new home AC system).

[solar_newbie]

Yeah. Finally people end up spending more rather than saving. Instead of saving energy, they use more .... Everything defeat the conservative purpose

Like for my case, I was planned for 16 panels (sw280) based on the last few year usages, but decide to add 18 panels. My wife requested to up side to at least 20 panels which I do not see the necessary. But now, I see I would need 22 at least to accommodate for the incoming electric spending ... beyond the current plan.

[skipro3]

I'd say the electric usage would go down because the homeowner is better informed on what is using power and what power costs.

I'd also say that the same homeowner is going to spend that saved electric bill money on other stuff. Stuff that probably uses electricity. Ha! For example, I got a new hot tub. Uses between 50 cents and a dollar a day to keep it hot all the time. My electric bill didn't go up because I have the tub on a timer to take advantage of TOU. (Compared to pre-solar and no TOU billing) In fact, I can now use more electric than I generate and still get money banked with PG&E due to off shifting my use with timers and TOU rates.

[J.P.M.]

I'd say the electric usage would go down because the homeowner is better informed on what is using power and what power costs.

I'd also say that the same homeowner is going to spend that saved electric bill money on other stuff. Stuff that probably uses electricity. Ha! For example, I got a new hot tub. Uses between 50 cents and a dollar a day to keep it hot all the time. My electric bill didn't go up because I have the tub on a timer to take advantage of TOU. (Compared to pre-solar and no TOU billing) In fact, I can now use more electric than I generate and still get money banked with PG&E due to off shifting my use with timers and TOU rates.

Perhaps another example of knowledge is power - the power to lower a bill and/or spend less via more knowledge of how things work and what's possible.

[Steve C]

I just read an article today stating that even with the lower gasoline prices people are now purchasing the higher octane type and using more. So instead of the car owner saving $40/month they only save $22/month because they are spending their savings on more fuel.

Some people are kind of strange. Savings for them is like money burning a hole in their pocket. They have to spend it (or waste it) instead of putting into a saving plan for that rainy day purchase (like a new home AC system).

Sun Eagle... For having never met my wife, you have her 100% figured out !

[J.P.M.]

I just read an article today stating that even with the lower gasoline prices people are now purchasing the higher octane type and using more. So instead of the car owner saving $40/month they only save $22/month because they are spending their savings on more fuel.

Some people are kind of strange. Savings for them is like money burning a hole in their pocket. They have to spend it (or waste it) instead of putting into a saving plan for that rainy day purchase (like a new home AC system).

Does this mean I'll need to wait for $5.00/gal. gas before I get my tricked out high end Tesla ??

[bcroe]

Every of us just talk about solar incentive, how it will offset electric usage, how we can play with TOU to consume more electric than product them. However, we just forgot one things. When there is more electric, we tend to use more. Like people tend to consume more when buying stuffs from Costco wholesale.
I am not sure if it is the same from others. But I see my family starts using more electric than we used to use because everyone know we do not pay for high price.
The question is if Solar helps to reduce electric consumption or increase it?

I don't know why you would ask that question. Seems to me the issue is, does solar increase
our poisoning our environment and increase the consumption of non renewable resources?

I am pretty sure my energy consumption hasn't gone up. Propane usage has been replaced
by solar energy, generally MULTIPLIED by a late model heat pump. I haven't bought a KWH in
nearly 2 years. And I finally figured out how to kill that Vampire load in the garage door opener.
Bruce Roe

[silversaver]

Do you spent money on solar to save money or cut down usages? You can always cut the usage without solar.

People with petite size solar thinks they are wise by maximize they return with TOU plan; on the other hand, people with oversize solar loves the extra comfort. Nothing wrong just matter of choice

[SunEagle]

I don't know why you would ask that question. Seems to me the issue is, does solar increase
our poisoning our environment and increase the consumption of non renewable resources?

I am pretty sure my energy consumption hasn't gone up. Propane usage has been replaced
by solar energy, generally MULTIPLIED by a late model heat pump. I haven't bought a KWH in
nearly 2 years. And I finally figured out how to kill that Vampire load in the garage door opener.
Bruce Roe

Did you use garlic and a wooden stake?

[bcroe]

Did you use garlic and a wooden stake?

I'm adding a a very small garlic tape wound transformer and a wooden stake relay. The problem
was this big fat 24VAC position & motor controlling activator, which required a big fat energy
consuming wasting 24V transformer. My usual energy efficient trans couldn't supply enough power.

Now my little super efficient garlic tape wound transformer supplies continuous 24V to run the buttons
and my small wooden stake relay. That relay controls 120VAC to the big fat transformer, whose
24V secondary is now wired DIRECTLY to the 24VAC position & motor controlling activator. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

Some reasons people get solar PV:

- Some people get solar PV because of a perception they are helping to save the planet.

- Some others, the crowd following sheeple, get PV to keep up with the Jones, or they swallowed what some peddler told them it was a good idea.

- Most people get solar primarily for the perceived reason it will reduce their electric bills.

- Some others, get PV for all of the above reasons and/or others.

Probably a moot point, but I'd wager that if the third reason didn't exist or somehow went away, or shown to be less true than thought, the first two and all the others would never have, or likely will not be enough to sustain residential solar PV implementation in the future.

The potential advantages of bill reduction have been blown out of proportion and often overstated by those with skin in the game. Such actions cynically take advantage of people's solar ignorance and monumentally abysmal financial knowledge.

If, somehow, the rampant ignorance that exists with respect to energy, its use, and PV's potential and limitations in the energy supply mix could be reduced, IMO, there would be a lot fewer PV on roofs, and what did exist would be smaller.

Just sayin'.

[Steve C]

Some reasons people get solar PV:

- Some people get solar PV because of a perception they are helping to save the planet.

- Some others, the crowd following sheeple, get PV to keep up with the Jones, or they swallowed what some peddler told them it was a good idea.

- Most people get solar primarily for the perceived reason it will reduce their electric bills.

- Some others, get PV for all of the above reasons and/or others.

Probably a moot point, but I'd wager that if the third reason didn't exist or somehow went away, or shown to be less true than thought, the first two and all the others would never have, or likely will not be enough to sustain residential solar PV implementation in the future.

The potential advantages of bill reduction have been blown out of proportion and often overstated by those with skin in the game. Such actions cynically take advantage of people's solar ignorance and monumentally abysmal financial knowledge.

If, somehow, the rampant ignorance that exists with respect to energy, its use, and PV's potential and limitations in the energy supply mix could be reduced, IMO, there would be a lot fewer PV on roofs, and what did exist would be smaller.

Just sayin'.

When I first inquired on this forum about the saving a PV system could offer, you, JPM, suggested that a solar system was only the 3rd best option to saving money.
it should come only after:

energy conservation (less AC, less lights. etc)
more efficient appliances (converting to LED's, whole house fan, variable speed pool pump, etc).

I admit that I am only in it for the $$$ savings and have done both of the above seemingly reducing my bill by 20%. Are you suggesting that a solar system would not be a valid addition to my savings plan?