Do you get a bill at the end of the year for having solar panels?

[wink79]

I read a newspaper article where some lady bought a new home with solar panels and her first months energy bill was under 5 bucks. Than I overheard some people talking about a friend of theirs who was nailed with a huge energy bill, I cant remember what the exact amount was but it was in the high hundreds, and it was supposedly for having solar panels. Does anyone know if its true that energy companies charge customers for having solar panels and why?

[Jason]

No, energy companies don't charge you for having solar panels. The only thing I can think of is during that last month of the year they may not have been getting as much sunlight as the other months and that's why their bill was higher. Hope that clears up some confusion for you!

[Jim]

I am from china. From your conversation, it seems that the governmetn will pay for the power that collect by people with the salar panel. I think it is a good policy for encouraging usage of solar power.

[Sunking]

it seems that the governmetn will pay for the power that collect by people with the solar panel. I think it is a good policy for encouraging usage of solar power.

I think it is a CRIME. The only people who can afford solar are the ones who can afford to pay full price for it and never miss the money. What ends up happening is the poor are subsidizing these folks luxuries against their will.

[rimpa001]

I read a newspaper article where some lady bought a new home with solar panels and her first months energy bill was under 5 bucks. Than I overheard some people talking about a friend of theirs who was nailed with a huge energy bill, I cant remember what the exact amount was but it was in the high hundreds, and it was supposedly for having solar panels. Does anyone know if its true that energy companies charge customers for having solar panels and why?

I agree with Jason..It might be the lack of sunlight that causes them so much electricity bill..

[trbizwiz]

I think it is a CRIME. The only people who can afford solar are the ones who can afford to pay full price for it and never miss the money. What ends up happening is the poor are subsidizing these folks luxuries against their will.

I tend to agree with you from a fiscal stand point. That said the folks who "can afford it" are likely paying far more in taxes than any tax rebate will ever repay, and those taxes subsidize many benefits to the "poor". If the government see's renewable energy as a valuable resource and chooses to give back a few overtaxed dollars so a family can justify getting on board, I don't have a real problem with it.
In an ideal world there would be no subsidies, or government freebies. The government would provide for the common defense, and keep the rule of the law. But we will likely never have that kind of government, so each should exercise as many deductions from his taxes as are legally feasible. And consider that paying the remainder is the cost of living in the greatest country in the world. It is not a perfect system, but probably the best to ever exist.
Please don't take my comments as argumentative. I agree with the spirit of your statement. I am just offering another perspective.
Although, I have often heard if you have to justify it, it's probably wrong. So I am probably wrong, but it seems justifiable

[Sunking]

I tend to agree with you from a fiscal stand point. That said the folks who "can afford it" are likely paying far more in taxes than any tax rebate will ever repay, and those taxes subsidize many benefits to the "poor". If the government see's renewable energy as a valuable resource and chooses to give back a few overtaxed dollars so a family can justify getting on board, I don't have a real problem with it.

Well there are two problems.

1 Utilities are forced to pay X amount in many states, or forced to pay Front End Tariff, and some states like California make the utilities ore than retail and wholesale prices for th electricity generated. the BLUE Collar and the poor get hammered with artificially inflated utility rates.

2. The tax money has to come from somewhere. In our case being borrowed, or taken from other programs.

[russ]

A little quiz for fun -

1) The total PV power generated due to the freebies is:
a) tremendous quantity and cheap
b) not much quantity and expensive
c) reliable and available on call

2) Typical installations operate at:
a) a high capacity factor
b) a low capacity factor
c) doesn't operate at all due to needing maintenance

3) The typical homeowner understands how much of what is on the roof:
a) understands it well and maintains the system
b) has no idea what happens up there - just wants a lower electric bill
c) can't understand why the system doesn't work like the salesman said it would

[trbizwiz]

Well there are two problems.

1 Utilities are forced to pay X amount in many states, or forced to pay Front End Tariff, and some states like California make the utilities ore than retail and wholesale prices for th electricity generated. the BLUE Collar and the poor get hammered with artificially inflated utility rates.

2. The tax money has to come from somewhere. In our case being borrowed, or taken from other programs.

Excellent points.
I like your original idea of the government not spending tax dollars on luxury items, therefore not borrowing from China, and maybe subsequently not charging as many $$. Then each of us can enjoy a truly free market and spend our dollars on what we believe in.

[trbizwiz]

A little quiz for fun -

1) The total PV power generated due to the freebies is:
a) tremendous quantity and cheap
b) not much quantity and expensive
c) reliable and available on call

2) Typical installations operate at:
a) a high capacity factor
b) a low capacity factor
c) doesn't operate at all due to needing maintenance

3) The typical homeowner understands how much of what is on the roof:
a) understands it well and maintains the system
b) has no idea what happens up there - just wants a lower electric bill
c) can't understand why the system doesn't work like the salesman said it would

I am guessing
B
C
C

[Mike90250]

In an ideal world there would be no subsidies, or government freebies. The government would provide for the common defense, and keep the rule of the law. But we will likely never have that kind of government

That's how the USA supported itself till the 1910's or so, with import and export fees/taxes. no personal income tax till close to current era.
just keeping it straight, 70% of our history, no income tax.

[Sunking]

That's how the USA supported itself till the 1910's or so, with import and export fees/taxes. no personal income tax till close to current era.
just keeping it straight, 70% of our history, no income tax.

According to the History of the Income Tax in our almanac, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.

[trbizwiz]

According to the History of the Income Tax in our almanac, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.

You know your stuff. Solar and historical. I am impressed.

[solar_dave]

I think it is a CRIME. The only people who can afford solar are the ones who can afford to pay full price for it and never miss the money. What ends up happening is the poor are subsidizing these folks luxuries against their will.

[RANT]
And how much tax is paid by the working poor, Ziltch. In fact a family of 4 needs to get to a pretty reasonable income level before the tax man even looks at them. Seems they are on a big tax break already. Then there are the ones who are there just looking for a handout, taking my hard earned dollars. In reality, it is me that is subsidizing a myriad of social programs for the poor or even the average working man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIkksi344cM

So statistics for 2005 show that 67% of filed returns actually paid taxes. that means 1/3 of the returns paid $0. Of those the top 5% paid almost 60% of the tax. This doesn't count the numbers of people not even required to file because of income levels. I certainly don't fall in that top 5%.

Taxpayers filed 134.4 million returns for Tax Year 2005, of which 90.6 million (or 67.4 percent) were classified as taxable returns. A taxable return is a return that has total income tax greater than $0.
<snip>
The top 5 percent of taxpayers accounted for 35.7 percent of AGI and 59.7 percent of total income tax.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05inrate.pdf

So the right thing to do is to make all energy sources show their true colors financially. How many tax breaks do the oil and coal industries get in the name of maintain low energy prices (and high profits margins)? Why not allow solar and wind these same benefits to level the playing field. One just has to look at the hidden costs for carbon energy to get it even.

Then look at the environment impacts of oil and coal. Have you ever seen a brown cloud? Does anyone thing BP can make it right for 20 billion? I doubt it, just look at the Exon Valdez to get a clue on the real costs of energy and the capability of the clean up. How about the cost of the damage when one of those coal slag piles lets go? Impossible to put those genies back into the bottle at almost any price.

Would I have been able to put up solar with out these rebates and tax breaks, the answer is hell no. First it would make no financial sense to do so, as the utility is subsidized in multiple ways in both its coal burning operation and the local nuclear plant. Would you drive a SUV if gasoline was 5 bucks a gallon, I doubt it. Seems you think that buying $475,000,000,000 a year of foreign oil as acceptable, yeah all those zeros are real. I certainly don't, that half a trillion a year is subsidized with multiple government programs, tax breaks and other "actions". Just wait till those less then friendly people holding the oil cards decide to raise the price again! I have paid taxes for over 40 years, and really this is the first time I get a direct personal benefit from that. That make me Criminal? I think this method of social change is the right way for government to act. How many decisions do I get as to where my tax dollars go? This is one for sure, I know of no others.

Really is the tax break and rebates the right thing to do? Hell yes, it levels the playing field. It will allow me to retire with a fix energy cost on my current home, allows me to have a Plug in EV if that ever gets rolling. Keeps me from becoming another drain on the government. It will allow me to have a clear conscience on my energy usage. It keeps my utility from adding another coal fired power plant to meet demand. It injects jobs and money into the local economy (better than any stimulus program could), I just wish more of the materials were American made (now there is something the government could fix). It is pretty short sighted to bash any move to renewable energy sources and level the playing field. I see no down side at all other than big oil and coal will take it on the chin eventually.

[/RANT_END]

[Sunking]

So Solar Dave the poor and blue collar folks do not use electricity, therefore do not pay artificially inflated electric rates and added FET's and SREC's on it?

As for solar preventing another conventional power plant being built is false, the exact opposite is true. What scientist, engineers and governments know is for every watt of renewable energy built, you must build a conventional power plant to replace it on a moments notice. If you take a look at 3 good examples like California, Spain, and Germany which all have about the same energy policy you will notice the RE programs are failing and they are digging themselves a very deep hole which will come to haunt them in the very near future.

Using Germany as an example who has been doing it the longest is in real trouble. Their Green Energy effort has been in place for over a decade now. When they started, Germany imported roughly 40% of their electricity from neighboring countries mainly from France nuclear generators. Today since they have failed to build out conventional power generation stations they now import 66% of their electricity and pay the highest electric rates in the world. That results in factories moving operation out of Germany taking those jobs with them.