Sun Bandit solar water heater pricing?

[C_Heath]

You're welcome. You like our service, tell your friends. Question everything everyone says until you understand what they're saying, including my stuff. Knowledge is the best B.S. filter around.

working on this envelope! One thing I did notice was my rim joists are not insulated at all. With that being said, my house is brick. Should this still be done?

[emartin00]

which AO smith one is $1000? the 80 gallon is $1975

When I bought my first one, the AO 50 gallon was only about $1000. It's $1200 now.
You can get the Rheem 50 gal from HD for $999 or the 80 gal for $1600

[J.P.M.]

working on this envelope! One thing I did notice was my rim joists are not insulated at all. With that being said, my house is brick. Should this still be done?

If you can get at them, yes. Why not ? before that, seal them with caulking to reduce/eliminate air (in/ex)filtration from/to the exterior. Some folks on U-tube - the new idiot's bible - suggest stopping air leaks w/ fiberglass insulation - H.S.

Your house is brick. I should have spotted that in your initial post. Are the walls insulated at all ? If not, and my guess is that it's not likely they are, that'll be another big source of your heat loss, and in a practical sense, short of major renovations, not a lot can be done to reduce heat transmission through a residential brick wall that can be done in a cost effective manner. More apologies for my mental lapses. If I'd been on the ball, I'd have mentioned that sooner.

Contrary to what most folks think, brick and masonry used for construction materials (as opposed to insulating fire brick used for kilns, and furnaces, etc.) are lousy insulators to the point they're usually thought of as conductors of heat rather than insulators. Being thermally massive, that is, requiring a lot of thermal energy to change the temp. of a material, means it heats and cools more slowly than less thermally massive materials. A brick wall will take longer to heat up/cool down, but a wood frame wall with insulation in the stud spaces will transmit heat at a lot less than 10% as fast as the brick. Thermal mass is not the same as thermal insulation.

Example: the "R" value of common brick is very ~ 0.20 or so. For comparison, 3 " of fiberglass insulation has an "R" value of 13, or about 65 times greater. The bigger the "R", the better insulator it is. There's more to it than that , but an uninsulated brick wall is a mostly heat sieve.

[Brian53713]

Since OP seems to be asking, and I haven't seen it mentioned here ,cellular honeycomb blinds. They help with hot and cold air. They have ones that let light in, or block the light. And you'll get some exercise in the winter when you have to wipe the windows because of the moisture build-up.

[C_Heath]

IMO, you said as much as was prudent - that being nothing.

hey jpm and others. I have recently went on a tear on my "envelope" and I have not notice that much of a difference in the "draftyness". I was lying on the couch last night around midnite and tho, it felt warm in my clothes, I still felt like there was cold air blowing accross my exposed arm. I will say this though. It does take a little longer for the house to cool off now so something is working. If the stat cuts my heat pump off at 73, it will stay 73 for a while. It was 27 here this morning and I noticed that it took 30 minutes for it to drop to 72 with the unit turned down a bit. Away mode is set to 69 mind you. So, I posted in the DIY forum and didnt get much advice but I want to post the same post here just to let you know what all I have done since I started this original thread. Some things were already done, attic insulation, new heat pump etc but the most of it has been in the last month.

Thanks alot guys!

Ive done in the last month/year, everything under the sun to seal up the envelope of my 38 year old brick home. First, its a square box, 2000 sq ft and has 4 bedrooms on all 4 corners with 2 bathrooms in between them, kinda like the brady bunch house bathrooms. It also has a unfinished basement with R19 (from the day it was built) in the joists. The great room is about 40 feet long and the kitchen is attached to it and these 2 rooms has 3/4 inch hickory hardwood. My problem is that the house is cold and drafty. I have to get it to 73 before it feels comfy to all 5 members of my family. The windows are the pella windows, double pain with the small metal blinds in between the pains. No gas. I dont feel any drafts from them but the window itself is cold to the touch. So far, this is what I have done to try to combat the cold/draft. R30 Cellulose in the attic New foam seals around the double front mahogony doors and door sweeps Capped off the fireplace Flues (has 2) with sheet metal and silicone All outlets and light switches have insulation Added Trane XL824 smart thermostat Added foam insulation to the double basement doors downstairs Added 2 new door sweeps downstairs Blanket insulated cold air return to unit 3m tape sealed the filter box so it wouldnt pull in the 55 degree air from the basement into the heating unit insulated the hot water lines from the electric water heater Had Trane to come service the 3 year old unit (Trane XR 15 with new trane inside unit 3.5 Ton Things I have not done but want to: Insulate Rim Joists Install wood stove I dont know what else to do to keep from feeling this draft? Could it be the air being pulled into the cold air return that I am feeling? The return is in the living room on a wall about knee high. I will also say that being this house is a square box, the unit is within about 10 feet of walking into my basement. This also causes a secondary problem. In the winter, 2 of the nearest bedrooms are hot as fire because the HVAC lines are about 10 feet long to the register. The air is hot and strong. Well, the other 2 bedrooms have some 30 feet of ducting to go through before the air hits the register. 1. there is not alot of force and 2 its cold. Reverse it in the summer, the closer bedrooms are freezing from the A/C and the other are burning up. I went as far as stuffing towels down into the closer registers but this didnt seem to help much either. Im really frustrated. Could it be the windows? Though I cant feel anything? The house has 18 of them. Could I be fighting a uphill battle? Thanks in advance. C in NC

[C_Heath]

Also, I have tried to find someone in my area to do a fandoor test with negative pressure with no luck. I do have Duke Energy coming to do a free audit but from what I hear, they will just walk around and suggest lots of energy star appliances. They have no FLIR or ability to do such tests.

[SunEagle]

Also, I have tried to find someone in my area to do a fandoor test with negative pressure with no luck. I do have Duke Energy coming to do a free audit but from what I hear, they will just walk around and suggest lots of energy star appliances. They have no FLIR or ability to do such tests.

Surprising there are now low cost FLIR attachments for cell phones. While they don't have the same quality as the larger units they will provide a thermal picture of what you are pointing at and can find thermal spikes (both hot or cold) which you can't see with the naked eye.

[Brian53713]

If you're feeling a draft in the middle of winter put a shirt on or two or three. And look into the honeycomb cellular insulated window Shades, or something that'll do the same thing.

[C_Heath]

Surprising there are now low cost FLIR attachments for cell phones. While they don't have the same quality as the larger units they will provide a thermal picture of what you are pointing at and can find thermal spikes (both hot or cold) which you can't see with the naked eye.

i did find one for my iPhone but I believe it was $400

[emartin00]

i did find one for my iPhone but I believe it was $400

SEEK also makes a thermal attachment for a smart phone. They're only about $200. I picked one up onsale on amazon for only $150 over the holidays.

[SunEagle]

i did find one for my iPhone but I believe it was $400

The one I saw for my Droid was about $250. I think there are other IR camera manufacturers that make the attachments for the iPhone such as the one that emartin00 mentioned.

Considering this technology from FLIR was only available in the $8000 or greater range about 8 years ago and have now come down to under $1000 for a pretty good camera. I expect the cell phone attachments to come down in price by next year.

[J.P.M.]

A couple thoughts:

1.) The large temperature difference in the outlet temps from one set of bedrooms to the other is a clue to something. One something is that the heat pump seems to be putting out sufficient heat or cool. Another is that the ducting to the other rooms is not doing a good job of getting heat/cool to where it's wanted. Does any of the ducting run through the attic ? Is the ducting insulated ? Is it tight ?

2.) Your home is brick. From a prior post, note that I wrote that brick is a lousy insulator. I believe I asked if your walls are insulated. If your couch is near an outside, uninsulated wall, that draft you feel may well be from a draft created by air as it's cooled by the uninsulated wall, dropping over the couch and your arm. Any uninsulated (or poorly insulated) walls will, among other things, create drafts. Uninsulated walls, because they are usually colder/warmer than desired, can well be a source of discomfort, not only from drafts but from thermal radiation heat transfer. If those brick walls are uninsulated, they will be a major source of heat loss/gain. For comfort, as Brian 53713 suggests I'd second his suggestion of covering bare skin.

3.) One indication of a "tight enough" building envelope is to take note of how difficult it is to close or open a well hung and fitted door. A well sealed dwelling will have doors that often exhibit a slight and initial reluctance to movement aside from the resistance any door seals/weatherstripping may provide. Make sure all the building (kitchen/bath, etc.) vents are closed and otherwise well sealed.

4. As a safety issue, make sure the wood stove you have/use is in proper working order AND remember that it does need a sufficient and (to be safe) at least a slight excess of air for proper combustion and operation. Sometimes, when tightening up a dwelling, folks living in such dwellings that have such combustion sources inside the dwelling forget to allow for the excess air needed for those combustion devices and get closer to an unsafe condition. DO NOT FORGET THIS. IT'S A BIG DEAL !

[bcroe]

it is something anyone can do, a couple panels on the garden shed connected
with just a wire. No plumbing, exchanger fluids, no complicated modifications to the house. It is something that
could be boxed up and sold at Home Depot for w weekend project. If you want to get into the lunacy of solar, this
is the least painful way to do it.

It this the "wire a panel directly to a water heater element" idea? Perhaps simple, but not very rewarding. In
order to be effective (efficient) there needs to be a means to keep the panel operating point somewhere near
MPPT. I admit, that is less of a penalty where the sun shine brightly every day, than where there is a continuously
varying level of clouds (like here). And at any distance (700' here), it requires many panels to get the voltage high
enough for efficient transmission to the load. The water heater control IS NOT designed to switch much DC
power, so a system big enough to make a difference begs a dedicated electronic control.

I can heat water with PV panels at MPPT, with minimal transmission loss, and with no heater control issues. The
economies of a grid tie here would most likely double the efficiency (or do even better) of a wire, and eliminate the
control problem. Bruce Roe

[C_Heath]

These are also great ideas. I have no idea if the are in between the wall joists and brick are insulated. Wouldn't it take an idiot builder not to do this? I guess opening up the drywall around knee level and not on a stud would tell me. I have mud and paint left over.

I can feel the slightest bit of breeze but not with my hand but rather my nose in SOME of the window tracks. The north facing windows get hit with big wind and those are the ones I can feel slight wind on.

As as far as the ducting they are insulated on the inside and reduce down as per code. I have not yet put mastic and 3m foil tape but that is in the plan.

The rim joists are warm. I feel nothing on those. Still, XPS foam is cheap and I have nothing but time and plenty of great stuff.

Thank you again guys. I'm gonna get this thing sealed up.

Chris

[Mike90250]

Install wood stove

And you will have to install an outside source of combustion air.
Or the stove will either A) suck cold outdoor air in, heat it, and send it up the chimney B) can't get air in a sealed house and just smoke and smoulder. C) kill you with combustion byproducts (Co)