Using solar pipes as shadebars - Any visually nice options?

[Sunny Solar]

How about first putting either wood slats over the beams about 1in x1/2in and clip the flexible pipe to that? Or run aluminium? channel across the beams 1in high x width of pipe and sit the flexible tubing in that. Paint it black. It may also help collect heat? and reduce wind cooling the pipe?

[inetdog]

Green is right, my wife won't go for semi-curvy pipes.

My contractor made an interesting comment today. He said back in the old days, brass, copper and steel was all that pool contractors had and somehow pool water circulation systems seemed to have survived, at least for a while. What was it they did back in the day that made it so the metal pipes survived?

They survived, but not forever. And the pipes (except for the pool heater) were not carrying hot water. And they did not throw as many chemicals into the pool back then, or try to keep them open for as much of the year.

Things like heat exchangers are cheaper and exchange heat better with thin walled pipes. But to withstand pool chemicals they were built thicker and cost more.

[MikeInSoCal]

Green is right, my wife won't go for semi-curvy pipes.

My contractor made an interesting comment today. He said back in the old days, brass, copper and steel was all that pool contractors had and somehow pool water circulation systems seemed to have survived, at least for a while. What was it they did back in the day that made it so the metal pipes survived?

[green]

I used the black poly-pipe as an irrigation tech. The OP say asthetics are important. That stuff comes in rolls and never staightens out. Good luck making that look good enough for the wife. I hated the stuff, Major pain in the ass to get it the way you want without kinkining it. It's supposed to make things easier, but I found PVC to be much better to work with. We used a lot of both Poly and PVC so I can tell you first hand PVC will cooperate and look nicer.

Green

[inetdog]

That is what the DIY pool heater coils use. Don't know the composition - seems like 20 years back they called it PBS but that is a long time back

Most pipe consumers see these days is either:
1. ABS (flexible, suitable for moderate pressure, but thermoplastic and so no use at all for hot water.) The black form contains UV protection. Even in irrigation uses, if left standing in the sun with no water flow it can deform. Can be used for pool heating as long as it is kept below its temperature limit. Not suitable for Domestic Hot Water (DHW) temperatures even in a low pressure system.
2. PVC (rigid, suitable for high temp use such as DHW. Not UV resistant unless painted. Requires solvent welding with fittings.)

For commercial irrigation and for home drip irrigation, the main choice these days is black polyethylene. It is generally connected with barbed fittings or heat fusion methods rather than cement. It has less abrasion and puncture resistance than ABS.

I can't find a reference for PBS pipe.

[russ]

Anyway, what about flexible tubing used for farm sprinkler systems. ?? That is black and must have a reasonably long life as its designed to be used constantly in all weather.?? OK,, as you say its UV resistant and I thought it must be then it is a good candidate ? And it cant be very expensive either.

That is what the DIY pool heater coils use. Don't know the composition - seems like 20 years back they called it PBS but that is a long time back

[Sunny Solar]

Anyway, what about flexible tubing used for farm sprinkler systems. ?? That is black and must have a reasonably long life as its designed to be used constantly in all weather.?? OK,, as you say its UV resistant and I thought it must be then it is a good candidate ? And it cant be very expensive either.

[inetdog]

That is UV resistant - using the PEX was not a good idea from Build It Solar - They tell you not to even store PEX in the sun.

Store it safely in your nice dark wall cavities, crawl spaces, attics and basements.

I knew of a radio station which generously stored somebody else's surplus communication cable for them, safely in underground ducts, and even connected it to their communication system to allow its condition to be constantly monitored.

[russ]

But nothing stays forever.Even if he used stainless steel tubing its shown that even that does not have a long lifespan.
It would be a simple task to repaint the tubing every 2yrs? 5 yrs. ??? And cost and effort of repainting a few lengths of tubing is minimal.

Anyway, what about flexible tubing used for farm sprinkler systems. ?? That is black and must have a reasonably long life as its designed to be used constantly in all weather.??

That is UV resistant - using the PEX was not a good idea from Build It Solar - They tell you not to even store PEX in the sun.

[Sunny Solar]

The paint stays 100% over time? Bad idea!

But nothing stays forever.Even if he used stainless steel tubing its shown that even that does not have a long lifespan.
It would be a simple task to repaint the tubing every 2yrs? 5 yrs. ??? And cost and effort of repainting a few lengths of tubing is minimal.

Anyway, what about flexible tubing used for farm sprinkler systems. ?? That is black and must have a reasonably long life as its designed to be used constantly in all weather.??

[russ]

I'm thinking about doing some experiments to test how effective pvc inside a painted square metal tube would be. I'd compare with black pvc and painted black metal. Maybe even compare black paint versus brown. But before I try to reinvent a wheel that someone else already invented, has anyone already done tests like that somewhere?

Think about it for another 5 minutes then discard the line of thought - my opinion.

[russ]

That's why you paint the PEX. Gary covers this at Builditsolar. He has build several solar collectors using PEX.

The paint stays 100% over time? Bad idea!

[MikeInSoCal]

Thanks for the responses, guys. There are some good ideas here I hadn't thought of. Plus I didn't know about builditsolar.com. I've just skimmed it so far, but it looks like there's a lot of good stuff there.

The clear corrugated panels with PEX is worth looking into, although I don't know if my wife will go for it. Aesthetics over functionality is going to be a battle. I wonder, though, what would be the advantage of PEX over PVC?

As far as the beams go, they're decorative, not structural (they don't extend through the building,) but they're intentionally built to hold a lot of weight because this solar thing has always been the plan. I'm meeting with the architect today, though, so I'll double check anyway, just to be sure.

The roof can't be used for solar, because it's a deck. Although I suppose a black floor (walk-on solar panels?) might be kinda interesting. It's a weird idea and probably really difficult, but I'm half serious about at least considering it.

As far as shading goes, we get 100% sun on this building from 9:00 until sunset. The eaves area is only about 30% of the pool area, though, and even with the cover, we're still underpowered. But we're taking whatever we can get.

I'm thinking about doing some experiments to test how effective pvc inside a painted square metal tube would be. I'd compare with black pvc and painted black metal. Maybe even compare black paint versus brown. But before I try to reinvent a wheel that someone else already invented, has anyone already done tests like that somewhere?

[Wy_White_Wolf]

From what I have read about it I don't believe PEX is UV resistant - a different plastic might be better.

That's why you paint the PEX. Gary covers this at Builditsolar. He has build several solar collectors using PEX.

[russ]

Someone would need to research the idea but:

Could you attach clear corrigated panels on top of the eaves and use the corrigations to lay black painted pex tubing in?

From what I have read about it I don't believe PEX is UV resistant - a different plastic might be better.