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Can I charge the battery using a charger that draws electricity from inverter?

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  • Can I charge the battery using a charger that draws electricity from inverter?

    Sorry, I am new to this. When raining and there is no sun, is it possible to charge the battery with a battery charger that draws electricity from the inverter? (like a loop)

    Where can i read more about solar set up that's newbie friendly, I'm getting lost on the abbreviation and tools used.

    Thanks

  • #2
    No

    www

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    • #3
      uh, it's possible to recharge a different battery, but the battery that powers the inverter will end up discharged.

      If you are connecting your charger to the same battery that is powering the inverter, you will be slowly discharging your battery depending on how lossy your inverter (80%) and charger (60%) are. So, no, it won't work.
      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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      • #4
        Sure you can. You can generate free energy. All you have to do is get a battery, motor, and a generator with two output plugs.

        Connect the battery to the electric motor, the motor turns the generator. From the generator you use one of the plugs to charge the battery that powers the motor to complete the feedback loop. With the second plug on the generator you use to power your house with free electricity the rest of your life.

        Trust me I know what I am talking about, the Goberment and Power Companies have a contract out to kill me so I will not tell anybody the secret I just shared with you. I need your support. Please send me $100 for a set of plans.

        MSEE, PE

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        • #5
          Nice one

          Wy_White_Wolf - Thanks
          Mike90250 - Thanks, that is the explanation I'm looking for.

          Sunking - you're an asshole!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by maaku View Post
            Sunking - you're an asshole!
            Wrong, try Smart A$$.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #7
              Originally posted by maaku View Post
              Sorry, I am new to this. When raining and there is no sun, is it possible to charge the battery with a battery charger that draws electricity from the inverter? (like a loop)

              Where can i read more about solar set up that's newbie friendly, I'm getting lost on the abbreviation and tools used.

              Thanks
              Ahh, the endless search for perpetual motion...

              About 10 years ago, I wanted to continuously power a remote light, without a fuel-burning generator...
              and I thought I invented a plan that could change the world.

              I took (3) Automotive 12volt Batteries and wired them in series to power a 36 volt motor.
              I welded a v-belt pulley onto the shaft, to drive a 12 volt alternator.

              I ran (3) voltage meters while running the motor/alternator to charge each battery one at a time.

              It turned out that charging the one battery closest to the positive lead just about eliminated the discharge of the other 2 batteries...
              But the alternator output was not enough to recharge the battery being charged.
              I was going to try a larger alternator, but that would've required more power from the motor, requiring more draw from the batteries.

              pm010605.jpg

              CONCLUSION(s):
              * No such thing as perpetual motion.
              * A properly sized PV system will accomplish what I set out to do.

              The "perpetual motion unicorn" still pops into my head from time to time, and I wonder what would've happened if I experimented with different types or sizes of batteries...?
              [CENTER]SunLight @ Night[/CENTER]

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shockah View Post
                The "perpetual motion unicorn" still pops into my head from time to time, and I wonder what would've happened if I experimented with different types or sizes of batteries...?
                Same result as there is no such thing as unity or greater than unity gain. In Layman terms nothing is 100% or greater than 100% efficient. The very simple fundamental principle of the Law of Conservation of Energy
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                  Same result as there is no such thing as unity or greater than unity gain. In Layman terms nothing is 100% or greater than 100% efficient. The very simple fundamental principle of the Law of Conservation of Energy
                  You are misunderstanding the concept - it uses the new math and liberal logic - anything is possible if you just tax others adequately and tell enough tall stories.
                  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                    Same result as there is no such thing as unity or greater than unity gain. In Layman terms nothing is 100% or greater than 100% efficient. The very simple fundamental principle of the Law of Conservation of Energy
                    Truth.

                    Originally posted by russ View Post
                    You are misunderstanding the concept - it uses the new math and liberal logic - anything is possible if you just tax others adequately and tell enough tall stories.
                    Funny.
                    [CENTER]SunLight @ Night[/CENTER]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is an old thread and the OP is now thoroughly informed, but the question is re-validated if there are 2 batteries involved - especially when they're different chemistries. Suppose my RV has LiFePo house batteries with a suitable charging system - what if I want to use the vehicle battery or alternator to charge while on the road? The normal isolator-type solutions for LA battery banks do not address the higher voltage requirements for my house bank, and a step-up dc converter is typically rated for much lower currents. Doesn't a modest MSW inverter tapping my starter battery require only a tolerable increase in work from the alternator?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BadBat View Post
                        ........ Doesn't a modest MSW inverter tapping my starter battery require only a tolerable increase in work from the alternator?
                        Define Tolerable . Say the vehicle has a 100A alternator, 20% might be tolerable while driving in daytime. 14V @ 20A is less than 300W going into the 2nd battery. What about adding a 2nd alternator with voltage set to the 2nd bank requirements ?

                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't see the original question being re-validated by having two different battery types involved. The OP wanted to recharge a battery by using only the energy remaining in the same battery that needs a recharge. That's just funny no matter how you look at it.

                          You just want to know if your RV's charging system can keep up with charging a separate standalone battery while driving down the road. Add up the expected loads and compare that to the capacity of your alternator. Insert a fudge factor % for losses and and you will have your answer.
                          Dave W. Gilbert AZ
                          6.63kW grid-tie owner

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                            . . . Say the vehicle has a 100A alternator, 20% might be tolerable while driving in daytime. 14V @ 20A is less than 300W going into the 2nd battery. What about adding a 2nd alternator with voltage set to the 2nd bank requirements ?
                            Other than having the necessary space to add an alternator, I guess the question would then be whether there's enough drive-time charging to justify supplementing the primary method this way.

                            Your "tolerable" calculations do indicate that the step-up converter option might be an inexpensive solution (cable costs permitting). Some of those are rated at up to 1500W for under $40. Safety and reliability of such a setup is likely very much in doubt, though . . .

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