Easy solar?

[Sunking]

[QUOTE=Ronald McDonald;40053]

3. The panels are UL compliant - stupid to sell any other kind - same goes for the microinverter - I don't know that they could buy a microinverter top sell that isn't compliant.

Thanks Rich, a copy of the UL compliance approval was checked by me already, and looks legit.

OK what is the UL #. I will copy and print the white paper listing right here to settle it.

No Number = No Listing = BS.

[Ronald McDonald]

Thanks Rich, a copy of the UL compliance approval was checked by me already, and looks legit. Also, I called several electricians and engineers who checked their system against NEC codes and found it complies, ordered one kit today

[Naptown]

This is a company wanting to be tricky to get sales - damn safety and play with the truth.
I would never consider buying from a company that I know is providing misleading information. They have a disclaimer providing a more correct way to go about things but to someone that knows nothing about electricity or code it would appear to be OK to just plug into any outlet and you are ready to go. That covers at least half the population and I would guess closer to 90%.
Do as they say and one is asking for problems with the utility and insurance company in the event of a problem.

Just a question here...if they (SpinRay Energy) have disclaimers and warnings on their website AND in the instruction/owners manual on how the system should be connected for code and safety, then why do you say that they are being "tricky"? If they were trying to "trick" people into sales wouldn't they NOT write anything about code/safety? Regardless of a persons intelligence, it is THEIR responsibility to read the instructions, not the company's responsibility to FORCE people into taking lie-detector tests to make sure they read it. If somebody sticks their finger in an electrical outlet, is it the outlet manufacturers fault because they didn't make the person take a course on electrical safety? No, it is the person's responsibility to know what is safe and what isn't. Another example (of which there are many), if someone burns themselves on McDonald's coffee, is it the company's fault? No, it is the customers responsibility to read the warning on the cup that says "caution hot". If they say the panel and inverters are UL and NEC compliant and they have the documents to prove it, then I believe them. As far as it being a standard GT system when connected properly, once again untrue. No other company has a 120-Volt microinverter, they are all 240-Volt, and not everyone has 240-Volt outlets on the outside of their house, but almost everybody has 120-Volt outlets. I would like to hear your response as to why you think this solar kit is "dangerous, misleading, non-compliant with the utility/insurance company" because from what I can see you seem to be "playing with the truth".

Thanks, Ronald [/QUOTE]

The best thing for you to do Ronald is to get the white paper and approval from UL or other certified testing lab. The Manufacturer should be able to provide this. If not then I would not have too much faith.
You can also look up the electrical codes in the NEC and verify if this is an approved installation. This is available online. the article is 690

[russ]

1. Don't show the plug as they do on the main page - that is not a legal method

2. The comparison with hot coffee is silly - anyone that is not smart enough to know coffee as served is hot is better of dead anyway. Electrical installations are a different story - most will not read the manual but use the plugin provided.

3. The panels are UL compliant - stupid to sell any other kind - same goes for the microinverter - I don't know that they could buy a microinverter top sell that isn't compliant.

4. This company is selling EXACTLY the same thing as everyone else (except for the stupid plug) but they are trying to make it seem they have something easier and special.

5. This bunch manufacturers UL compliant microinverters? No - that means company can buy the same thing.

6. Lean them against the deck and make power - beyond stupid. 120 volts and connected into the household system is plenty deadly.

I think you are a shill for the company? If so say so. If not then why try to justify the 'stuff' this party is trying to hustle?

I wouldn't recommend this to someone I detested - pure fact.

[Ronald McDonald]

This is a company wanting to be tricky to get sales - damn safety and play with the truth.
I would never consider buying from a company that I know is providing misleading information. They have a disclaimer providing a more correct way to go about things but to someone that knows nothing about electricity or code it would appear to be OK to just plug into any outlet and you are ready to go. That covers at least half the population and I would guess closer to 90%.
Do as they say and one is asking for problems with the utility and insurance company in the event of a problem.

Just a question here...if they (SpinRay Energy) have disclaimers and warnings on their website AND in the instruction/owners manual on how the system should be connected for code and safety, then why do you say that they are being "tricky"? If they were trying to "trick" people into sales wouldn't they NOT write anything about code/safety? Regardless of a persons intelligence, it is THEIR responsibility to read the instructions, not the company's responsibility to FORCE people into taking lie-detector tests to make sure they read it. If somebody sticks their finger in an electrical outlet, is it the outlet manufacturers fault because they didn't make the person take a course on electrical safety? No, it is the person's responsibility to know what is safe and what isn't. Another example (of which there are many), if someone burns themselves on McDonald's coffee, is it the company's fault? No, it is the customers responsibility to read the warning on the cup that says "caution hot". If they say the panel and inverters are UL and NEC compliant and they have the documents to prove it, then I believe them. As far as it being a standard GT system when connected properly, once again untrue. No other company has a 120-Volt microinverter, they are all 240-Volt, and not everyone has 240-Volt outlets on the outside of their house, but almost everybody has 120-Volt outlets. I would like to hear your response as to why you think this solar kit is "dangerous, misleading, non-compliant with the utility/insurance company" because from what I can see you seem to be "playing with the truth".

Thanks, Ronald

[russ]

Now the site says UL listed inverter. However they still show the standard plug on the main page.

This is a company wanting to be tricky to get sales - damn safety and play with the truth.

I would never consider buying from a company that I know is providing misleading information. They have a disclaimer providing a more correct way to go about things but to someone that knows nothing about electricity or code it would appear to be OK to just plug into any outlet and you are ready to go. That covers at least half the population and I would guess closer to 90%.

Do as they say and one is asking for problems with the utility and insurance company in the event of a problem.

[Naptown]

So is there a DIY grid tie solar kit that meets all the codes? I'd like to get started in solar power and it would be nice if I could tie it into my home electrical system, so my fridge and air conditioner and other appliances could use the solar power if available. Is the best way to do this, is to hire a solar power professional installer?

A solar contractor is always the easiest route to go.
Depending on your location and the restrictions of the local AHJ you may be able to do this on your own. Some Jurisdictions will allow an owner to work on their own house. I know where I live I cannot do so. Some distributors such as Solartown our host will sell a kit that you can install. Bolting the modules down is kind of a DIY project if you have the skills. I would still hire an electrician to do the connections. A micro-inverter system lends itself best for a DIY application.
Also check with your state for rebates which may only be available if done by a licensed solar contractor.

[DeniseT]

So is there a DIY grid tie solar kit that meets all the codes? I'd like to get started in solar power and it would be nice if I could tie it into my home electrical system, so my fridge and air conditioner and other appliances could use the solar power if available. Is the best way to do this, is to hire a solar power professional installer?

[Naptown]

You are talking about a snorkels like these right? They are recessed inside a housing where you cannot come into contact with them.

Precisely
However they do get a bit pricey. Probably cost as much as the panel and inverter.

[Sunking]

They also make similar items for connecting a portable generator to a transfer switch.

You are talking about a snorkels like these right? They are recessed inside a housing where you cannot come into contact with them.

[russ]

The basic thing - if you make the connection to meet code (considering all is UL compliant) you end up with a standard grid tie system.

Once you take the picture of the plug out there is nothing different or special.

Anyone selling microinverters and panels would have the same product.

[Naptown]

Not trying to bust your chops, but boats, RV's, etc fall outside the scope of the NEC. Those applications has a different set of codes and standards to follow.

They also make similar items for connecting a portable generator to a transfer switch.

[Sunking]

I both agree and disagree with that.
Yes exposed supply contacts are not a good thing. This could easily be gotten around with a plug similar to those used on boats, RV's etc

Not trying to bust your chops, but boats, RV's, etc fall outside the scope of the NEC. Those applications has a different set of codes and standards to follow.

[Naptown]

NEC 690.4 (B) You can't mix PV and non PV circuits in the same cable or outlet.....in other words, the receptacle on the wall circuit can't be used for anything OTHER than a PV conductor.

( copy and paste is from a PDF file, and is a bit odd...sorry)

(B)ConductorsofDifferentSystems. Photovoltaic
sourcecircuitsandPVoutputcircuitsshallnotbecon-
tainedinthesameraceway,cabletray,cable,outletbox,
junctionbox,orsimilarfittingasconductors,feeders,or
branchcircuitsofothernon-PVsystems,unlessthecon-
ductorsofthedifferentsystemsareseparatedbyapartiti on.
PVsystemconductorsshallbeidentifiedandgroupedas
requiredby690.4(B)(1)and(B)(2) [ROP4-184]

609.17 All PV systems must have a disconnect prior to the point of entry to a building....I seriously doubt "pulling a plug" qualifies. The AC disconnect must be clearly marked with signage per this section, listing the type (DC/AC) voltage, and amperage.

To read this correctly one must know the difference between source and output circuits.
The correct definition of a source circuit would be the circuit between the modules and and a combiner or junction if less than three strings.
An output circuit is the circuit between the combiner or junction if less than three strings to the inverter.

A disconnect is not required unless DC is entered into the building envelope at the closest point that is accessable there shall be a disconnect and all DC wiring within the building envelope shall be installed in metallic raceway.

Since the output of this device is AC I would have to look for more reason to disqualify.

[TnAndy]

NEC 690.4 (B) You can't mix PV and non PV circuits in the same cable or outlet.....in other words, the receptacle on the wall circuit can't be used for anything OTHER than a PV conductor.

( copy and paste is from a PDF file, and is a bit odd...sorry)

(B)ConductorsofDifferentSystems. Photovoltaic
sourcecircuitsandPVoutputcircuitsshallnotbecon-
tainedinthesameraceway,cabletray,cable,outletbox,
junctionbox,orsimilarfittingasconductors,feeders,or
branchcircuitsofothernon-PVsystems,unlessthecon-
ductorsofthedifferentsystemsareseparatedbyapartiti on.
PVsystemconductorsshallbeidentifiedandgroupedas
requiredby690.4(B)(1)and(B)(2) [ROP4-184]

609.17 All PV systems must have a disconnect prior to the point of entry to a building....I seriously doubt "pulling a plug" qualifies. The AC disconnect must be clearly marked with signage per this section, listing the type (DC/AC) voltage, and amperage.