Easy solar?

[Naptown]

The problem here is the plug, or exposed electrical SUPPLY or SOURCE contacts.

Imagine this. Look at all your wall receptacles in the house and think about if they were male plugs instead of female receptors.

I both agree and disagree with that.
Yes exposed supply contacts are not a good thing. This could easily be gotten around with a plug similar to those used on boats, RV's etc where you are plugging in a cord to power the RV boat whatever.

The other issue is UL 1741 (Assuming it is) which would cause the inverter to shut down and not disconnect from the plug when grid is not present. This would mean the instant (OK a couple of microseconds) after the plug is pulled from the outlet the plug would or should be dead.

[Sunking]

The problem here is the plug, or exposed electrical SUPPLY or SOURCE contacts.

Imagine this. Look at all your wall receptacles in the house and think about if they were male plugs instead of female receptors.

[russ]

Russ, you still did not answer my question. PLEASE past and copy the NES code so we ALL can see it.

Look your own self and SHOW it to ALL of us.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it is - that is pure 'green'.

[Mike90250]

It could very well be a UL 1741 inverter, but gluing it to a PV panel, and using a plug-in cord, is not legal.

When set up by an Amateur, likely things will NOT be grounded properly, and if several were installed, could easily overload a branch circuit. Picture someone setting up a dozen of these, plugged into a outlet strip. poof the magic smoke comes out of the wall and the house burns up. Then the fire inspector / insurance company see the remains of the bootleg panels and ins. coverage is canceled and someone may even go to jail.

That's what we are warning about. Even if UL listed, the total package is not permitted for "plug in"

[Sunking]

Russ, you still did not answer my question. PLEASE past and copy the NES code so we ALL can see it.

Code is not the primary issue as that is secondary, Primary issue is UL 1741. Provide the UL White Book Listing Number well settle the dispute.

[bksunny45]

Russ, you still did not answer my question. PLEASE past and copy the NES code so we ALL can see it.

[Naptown]

Back feeding through wiring and a circuit not designed for it?

The OP put in an additional line to the panel with breaker so no back feeding.

Yes it would have to be on its own circuit and backfed into the panel at the opposite end of the panel from the main and could not have total of all feeding circuits exceed 120% of the ratings on the buss bars.

[russ]

Here's my 2 cents
The 240V inverter shown on the site looks suspiciously like an Enphase unit but no way of telling for sure.
This would meet UL1741 and in theory be able to be plugged in as the plug would not be live till 5 minutes after plugging in.
However there is a glaring missing link here in that there is no mention of bonding the panel or inverter. This would be required whether hard wired or a plug in.

Back feeding through wiring and a circuit not designed for it?

The OP put in an additional line to the panel with breaker so no back feeding.

[Naptown]

Here's my 2 cents
The 240V inverter shown on the site looks suspiciously like an Enphase unit but no way of telling for sure.
This would meet UL1741 and in theory be able to be plugged in as the plug would not be live till 5 minutes after plugging in.
However there is a glaring missing link here in that there is no mention of bonding the panel or inverter. This would be required whether hard wired or a plug in.

[russ]

Russ, no need for a net meter, at 418 watts NO WAY of backfeeding the grid. Since my Inspector/electrical engineer, local electrical inspector and the local electric company have seen these panel/inverter kits installed and have approved the installation can you tell me spacifically the NEC code that they have missed. I am sure they would love to know. I would also like to look that code up because for sure I don't want to do anything unsafe.

That is a point I made earlier - the amount will never allow for export. You have a grid tie unit.

They are packaging a panel & microinverter with a plug in attached. The plug in feature is not legal. They make a back handed reference to this on the web site.

Most places the utility wants to know of an installation to ensure it can not affect their grid in any manner. In most places they can be quite nasty if they figure out there is an illegal connection.

My complaint is about the way the company presents the unit - with a picture of a plug in prominently shown. Such an assembly should NEVER use the plug in feature where one back feeds the system. Also their section about rebates may be correct a few places but not in many.

They are pushing the thing in an outlaw manner - maybe they don't even realize what they are doing but their sales approach, presentation seems to be trying to get sales by misrepresentation.

Virtually all solar companies sell exactly the same equipment but they don't advertise it in such a manner.

[bksunny45]

Russ, no need for a net meter, at 418 watts NO WAY of backfeeding the grid. Since my Inspector/electrical engineer, local electrical inspector and the local electric company have seen these panel/inverter kits installed and have approved the installation can you tell me spacifically the NEC code that they have missed. I am sure they would love to know. I would also like to look that code up because for sure I don't want to do anything unsafe.

[Sunking]

I don't know how much electrical knowlage you guys have buy here is the scoop. My friend is an electrical inspector at a neighboring town. Before I purchased the system I had him check out their site. He said as far as he was concerned if I put in the AFCI, dedicated line and electrical box enclosure that this would deff. be legal to NEC codes.

Professional Electrical Engineer of 34 years and counting. Your inspector friend is correct, however no plug-n-play GTI can ever meet code, its a plug, not hard wired. I will bet you money that GTI you have does not have a UL 1741 listing.

[russ]

You learn to read the posts and understand the topic and what those posts say.

The problem is not that it can be done to code but since it can simply be plugged in that is what most people will do. You did - whopee - most won't.

No one is trying to stop anything except potentially dangerous situations.

What you accomplished was a standard grid tie by doing the optional and additional work. The company should not make it such that the work you did is optional. They are being dishonest in trying to lure in customers.

In the event one uses this method without informing the utility, having the proper meter and produces more power than they consume more than likely they will be billed for the export as consumption.

An illegal connection is perfectly good cause for the utility to cut the cable to ones house.

Hope you were happy with your rant because you are 100% off base.

[bksunny45]

Easy Solar?

I don't know how much electrical knowlage you guys have buy here is the scoop. My friend is an electrical inspector at a neighboring town. Before I purchased the system I had him check out their site. He said as far as he was concerned if I put in the AFCI, dedicated line and electrical box enclosure that this would deff. be legal to NEC codes. After I got the "KIT" I put it together and mounted it, did ALL the recommendations they stated in their literature and website (cost under 70 bucks), I already had a dedicated line, no biggie replacing the breaker with an AFCI breaker (turn your main disconnect off first). The enclosure I got at Lowes and attached in minutes. Before I plugged the system ( 2 panels) in I had my buddie came over with his tools (he is a former electrical engineer for 30 years, retired last year) and we plugged them it. No power for 300 seconds, just like it is supposed to do...unplug it and it stops producing power, just like it was UL complient to do. My pal ran it through I don't know how many tests and it worked EVERY TIME. Putting out about 418 watts when the sun is shining and the mounting kit set to the right angle (important). I called my local electrical inspector and he came out to look at it, I showed him the UL complient certifications that came with the system. He checked it out and 30 minutes after that he said I will be getting a letter from his department giving me the A OK (got it last week). Also I contacted my local electric company and they said as long as it abides by the NEC codes they have NO problem because at a most of 5 panels putting out a total of less then 1100 watts there is no need for a net meter because I will be using the 1100 watts (if I get more panels) in the internal grid of my house (refrigerator, lights, etc.) So lets see....with those little things I did and made it pass NEC codes according to the REAL people that tell you what you can and can not do your going to tell me I AM WRONG and NOT TO CODE....I am really sick of you 'so called "electrical experts". Get some education and STOP trying to halt progress, this company seems to have their **** together and you are spreading LIES. Talk to the REAL experts before you believe these YAHOO's. It works and time will prove that I did the right thing in getting them, a few neighbors are getting ready to purchase a few also once I get back to them with my savings.

[Sunking]

Still requires a permit and inspection which unless the 2011 electrical code has changed (not) it still would not pass inspection.