Easy solar?

[Ronald McDonald]

Hey, newbie here! Anyone heard of AC panels that can plug directly into a regular electrical outlet? I want to go solar but don't want the expense of an electrician

[Sunking]

You are dreaming. There is no such thing a an AC panel. All solar panels are DC. Some maybe made with a built in inverter but you cannot escape regulations. There will never be a code compliant GTI that you can plug into an outlet in the USA. That only exist in Ronald McDonald FAIRY TALE LAND

[russ]

Hi Ronald - Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

There is no legal product like this available in the US. There are some shysters selling products like this on ebay and other locations but that is a no-no for many legal and safety reasons.

As Sunking pointed out all panels are DC and a little 'thingy' called an inverter converts the DC power to AC.

[vinniethePVtech]

Amazon.com sells inverters that plug directly into a standard outlet. I do not recomend it. They are not ETL or UL compliant. The invertrs are not clean sin wave power either. This means it causes numerous issues.

Dirty AC power causes dirty surges, shortens the life of house hold appliances and worst of all can literally catch nm conductor on fire within the walls of your home!!

No inverter should be installed without proper installation of using a backfeed breaker supplied at the main panel. main panels can take the current while a typical outlet cannot.

[Ronald McDonald]

Interesting info...

Thanks for the response! Ok, so you seem to know what you are talking about so i appreciate the advice, but the other day i was searching through solar panels on amazon and found a company selling what they claim is a 120-volt AC plug and play panel. I don't know much about solar (obviously) but they say the panel can be plugged into a standard outside wall outlet because it has a UL compliant micro-inverter attached which shuts off in the event of a power failure as to not backfeed, is this true? Has anyone heard of the company (SpinRay Energy), i'd like to know more?

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Thanks for the response! Ok, so you seem to know what you are talking about so i appreciate the advice, but the other day i was searching through solar panels on amazon and found a company selling what they claim is a 120-volt AC plug and play panel. I don't know much about solar (obviously) but they say the panel can be plugged into a standard outside wall outlet because it has a UL compliant micro-inverter attached which shuts off in the event of a power failure as to not backfeed, is this true? Has anyone heard of the company (SpinRay Energy), i'd like to know more?

From their website

"Get a UL/TUV listed Panel with an AC Inverter"

Notice it doesn't say the inverter is UL/TUV listed. Just the panel.

[computerpc101]

Before you buy any of this Grid-tied inverter, your house must have net meter or meter that is reversiable. Otherwise, Grid-tied inverter will not work the way you want.

[bksunny45]

120 volt AC plug and play

Hey...just to let you guys know I just bought a few panels from a company that plugs into your outside plug. I got the 120 volt version that hangs on my deck. The solar panels already have the microinverters attached. So all you have to do is bolt together the deck mounting system and you are all set. It is so cool, in about a hour I had the rack put together and hanging on my deck. The racking is made of aluminum angle and has all satinless steel bolts.Then I put in an AFCI breaker in my panel and made sure that the line was dedicated to just the outside plugs on my house. Nothing is drawing off these plugs but the panel. I will put the recommended cover on soon, have to go to Home Depot to get one. I also plugged in a kill A watt meter so I could see how they were working. After plugging the 2 panels together I plugged in the end plug to my house outside recepticle/kill a watt. These are UL approved grid tie microinverters it takes 5 minutes for the house 120 volt power to turn on the inverter.....then the kill a watt shows it is working...I am getting about 418 watts with the panel adjusted at the right angle. There are several adjusting holes on the rack....it fits very nicley over my railing on my deck, very secure. What can I say....they actually work as advertized. by the way the company is called spinrayenergy.com/products/deckpower120.html
Mike

[russ]

Be interesting to hear from Sunking and others about the legality of this arrangement.

Solar panel "kit" comes with everything you need to start receiving FREE energy from the sun. The "kit" come with the following: (1) 240 watt UL approved MONO crystalline solar panel, (1) 120 volt AC UL approved micro inverter, (1) deck mount system complete with all stainless steel hardware to assemble (about 30 minutes), (1) 120 volt male plug attached to the inverter output plug.

TO MEET NEC CODES WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU INSTALL A GFDI RECEPTICLE WITH A CONTINOUS USE COVER. WE ALSO RECOMMEND THAT YOU USE A DEDICATED 120 VOLT LINE CONNECTED TO YOUR ELECTRIC PANEL VIA A 15 AMP FUSE OR BREAKER

[TnAndy]

Sure LOOKS like a polycrystalline panel to me........

But that aside, since these do seem to have UL listing, it's gonna be interesting how the use of these spread, and how the power companies will take it.

Of course, too, you can buy a 240w Solarworld MONO crystalline panel now for $380, and an M215 Enphase inverter for $150, so the combo of that is $530. It would be 240v output, not quite as easy at the "plug n play" 120v version these guys are offering, but it's also 300 bucks less per panel ( less the mounting kit they throw in, which doesn't look like 300 bucks worth of mounting kit ).

[Sunking]

But that aside, since these do seem to have UL listing, it's gonna be interesting how the use of these spread, and how the power companies will take it.

Without an insoection from AHJ the POCO will not care if they have new meters. Any excess he generates he will be billed as if he used it.

[russ]

Without an insoection from AHJ the POCO will not care if they have new meters. Any excess he generates he will be billed as if he used it.

This is the plug and play arrangement that is not legal - right?

They add instructions to allow the owner to do ir more correctly and safely if they want to - difficult choice to make when most people buying them will have no idea. Rather than pay an electrician to make a more proper connection most will leave it.

With just a couple of panels it will never spin the meter backwards.

[Sunking]

Still requires a permit and inspection which unless the 2011 electrical code has changed (not) it still would not pass inspection.

[bksunny45]

Easy Solar?

I don't know how much electrical knowlage you guys have buy here is the scoop. My friend is an electrical inspector at a neighboring town. Before I purchased the system I had him check out their site. He said as far as he was concerned if I put in the AFCI, dedicated line and electrical box enclosure that this would deff. be legal to NEC codes. After I got the "KIT" I put it together and mounted it, did ALL the recommendations they stated in their literature and website (cost under 70 bucks), I already had a dedicated line, no biggie replacing the breaker with an AFCI breaker (turn your main disconnect off first). The enclosure I got at Lowes and attached in minutes. Before I plugged the system ( 2 panels) in I had my buddie came over with his tools (he is a former electrical engineer for 30 years, retired last year) and we plugged them it. No power for 300 seconds, just like it is supposed to do...unplug it and it stops producing power, just like it was UL complient to do. My pal ran it through I don't know how many tests and it worked EVERY TIME. Putting out about 418 watts when the sun is shining and the mounting kit set to the right angle (important). I called my local electrical inspector and he came out to look at it, I showed him the UL complient certifications that came with the system. He checked it out and 30 minutes after that he said I will be getting a letter from his department giving me the A OK (got it last week). Also I contacted my local electric company and they said as long as it abides by the NEC codes they have NO problem because at a most of 5 panels putting out a total of less then 1100 watts there is no need for a net meter because I will be using the 1100 watts (if I get more panels) in the internal grid of my house (refrigerator, lights, etc.) So lets see....with those little things I did and made it pass NEC codes according to the REAL people that tell you what you can and can not do your going to tell me I AM WRONG and NOT TO CODE....I am really sick of you 'so called "electrical experts". Get some education and STOP trying to halt progress, this company seems to have their **** together and you are spreading LIES. Talk to the REAL experts before you believe these YAHOO's. It works and time will prove that I did the right thing in getting them, a few neighbors are getting ready to purchase a few also once I get back to them with my savings.

[russ]

You learn to read the posts and understand the topic and what those posts say.

The problem is not that it can be done to code but since it can simply be plugged in that is what most people will do. You did - whopee - most won't.

No one is trying to stop anything except potentially dangerous situations.

What you accomplished was a standard grid tie by doing the optional and additional work. The company should not make it such that the work you did is optional. They are being dishonest in trying to lure in customers.

In the event one uses this method without informing the utility, having the proper meter and produces more power than they consume more than likely they will be billed for the export as consumption.

An illegal connection is perfectly good cause for the utility to cut the cable to ones house.

Hope you were happy with your rant because you are 100% off base.