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  • Rade
    Member
    • Aug 2023
    • 94

    System Management - Generac Solar, but question in general.

    So question to the folks who have been long-term Solar adopters - How much time do you spend having to manage your system?

    I feel like I am spending an inordinate amount of time managing our system with daily configuration inspections and revisions.

    We are 4 months into our full, Generac installation. 32 Panels (6 arrays / 13.2kW), inverter, 18kW battery backup. Either I discover that something has gone offline and I have to place a service call, or Generac decides to change the inverter configuration parameters that just don't work for our region. For the most part, our system is working well and we are learning a lot about what our home is doing (it's a frickin' power hog!) and when, and how to improve our overall energy usage. Banked some decent energy credits for use this coming winter. I am running our system in what they call "Self Supply" mode - charge the batteries and use the grid to power the house during the day, use the grid for when the batteries have depleted. When the grid starts producing more than 1kW of power, currently around 7AM, the arrays are able to sustain the house while starting the trickle of power to recharge the batteries. Full charge is somewhere late in the 10AM hour. When the batteries reach around 90% charged, power starts to trickle back to the grid and into our power "bank". Huzzah.

    On the first issue - We have one PVLink (of 6) that has been problematic since installation. We are at the 4th incident where it went offline and we lose power from that array. Our regional rep opens a problem ticket and it's usually resolved with an OTA system fix. Finally, on this last outage Generac is sending a roofing crew to hopefully swap it out this week. That should repair it once and for all. But that said, when I am observing (obsessing?) over the PWRView app (what our system is producing at the moment), and the number just don't add up for where the sun is over the arrays, I head to our utility basement and go through the configuration panels to see if something got knocked off line (that PVLink keeps popping a Ground Fault error). OR Generac pushed a software update and the panels did not all come back online (this has happened a few times).

    The second issue - I am constantly having to review and change is the low battery threshold. The inverter setting that determines how low the inverter will allow the batteries to deplete before switching over to Grid power. We live along the coastline in Rhode Island. We get a LOT of morning fog and related overcast that does not burn off until late morning. If that low-battery threshold is set to 20% remaining, then it takes a better part of the day for the batteries to fully recharge. Depending on the weather forecast for the coming week, I have been keeping that low battery threshold set between 30 and 50%. I discover that a couple times a week, that setting is changed back to a "Generac Summer Season" setting of 20%. Thankfully, I am learning to catch these changes before turning in for the night while the batteries are still relatively charged. My understanding from the Generac information is that their "Summer Season" lasts from May 1 to September 30, so I expect these annoying configuration changes will cease after this month.

    Background into the ASK: I am retired after 36 years in Information Technology. I know code, I know networks, I know cyber security. I know problem determination. I am a geek. I had thought this was simplifying life by reducing our homes obligations to fossil fuels and installing "state of the art" technology. I feel that if I were not so in-tune to these things, our solar installation just does not seem to as robust as expected. I also got a really good education on our system configuration from the crew that installed the system. They were kind to my shoulder surfing and questions - I don't suspect that happens a lot.

    So my ask to this board is: Is this degree of system management normal?



    Rade Radosevich-Slay
    Tiverton, RI
  • Rade
    Member
    • Aug 2023
    • 94

    #2
    BTW: Where I stated this, "When the grid starts producing more than 1kW of power" meant to type 'When the panels starts producing more than 1kW of power" - The board is telling me I am not authorized to edit...
    Rade Radosevich-Slay
    Tiverton, RI

    Comment

    • solardreamer
      Solar Fanatic
      • May 2015
      • 446

      #3
      Your experience is not uncommon for home battery owners. Compared to PV alone it's much more complex. No set it and forget it. One factor making it worse is that vendors no longer do full QA before release They are shipping half baked products and using customers as paying alpha/beta testers. Gotta a problem ... we'll fix in the next OTA update. If you want the system to work as expected then be prepared to be a power plant operator and troubleshooter.

      Comment

      • Rade
        Member
        • Aug 2023
        • 94

        #4
        Originally posted by solardreamer
        If you want the system to work as expected then be prepared to be a power plant operator and troubleshooter.
        To paraphrase Lily Tomlin, "I AM the Electric Company!"

        I just hope that things settle down once they swap out the PVLink that keeps ground faulting.

        Rade Radosevich-Slay
        Tiverton, RI

        Comment

        • oregon_phil
          Solar Fanatic
          • Jan 2019
          • 497

          #5
          Originally posted by Rade
          So question to the folks who have been long-term Solar adopters - How much time do you spend having to manage your system?

          I feel like I am spending an inordinate amount of time managing our system with daily configuration inspections and revisions.

          We are 4 months into our full, Generac installation. 32 Panels (6 arrays / 13.2kW), inverter, 18kW battery backup. Either I discover that something has gone offline and I have to place a service call, or Generac decides to change the inverter configuration parameters that just don't work for our region. For the most part, our system is working well and we are learning a lot about what our home is doing (it's a frickin' power hog!) and when, and how to improve our overall energy usage. Banked some decent energy credits for use this coming winter. I am running our system in what they call "Self Supply" mode - charge the batteries and use the grid to power the house during the day, use the grid for when the batteries have depleted. When the grid starts producing more than 1kW of power, currently around 7AM, the arrays are able to sustain the house while starting the trickle of power to recharge the batteries. Full charge is somewhere late in the 10AM hour. When the batteries reach around 90% charged, power starts to trickle back to the grid and into our power "bank". Huzzah.

          On the first issue - We have one PVLink (of 6) that has been problematic since installation. We are at the 4th incident where it went offline and we lose power from that array. Our regional rep opens a problem ticket and it's usually resolved with an OTA system fix. Finally, on this last outage Generac is sending a roofing crew to hopefully swap it out this week. That should repair it once and for all. But that said, when I am observing (obsessing?) over the PWRView app (what our system is producing at the moment), and the number just don't add up for where the sun is over the arrays, I head to our utility basement and go through the configuration panels to see if something got knocked off line (that PVLink keeps popping a Ground Fault error). OR Generac pushed a software update and the panels did not all come back online (this has happened a few times).

          The second issue - I am constantly having to review and change is the low battery threshold. The inverter setting that determines how low the inverter will allow the batteries to deplete before switching over to Grid power. We live along the coastline in Rhode Island. We get a LOT of morning fog and related overcast that does not burn off until late morning. If that low-battery threshold is set to 20% remaining, then it takes a better part of the day for the batteries to fully recharge. Depending on the weather forecast for the coming week, I have been keeping that low battery threshold set between 30 and 50%. I discover that a couple times a week, that setting is changed back to a "Generac Summer Season" setting of 20%. Thankfully, I am learning to catch these changes before turning in for the night while the batteries are still relatively charged. My understanding from the Generac information is that their "Summer Season" lasts from May 1 to September 30, so I expect these annoying configuration changes will cease after this month.

          Background into the ASK: I am retired after 36 years in Information Technology. I know code, I know networks, I know cyber security. I know problem determination. I am a geek. I had thought this was simplifying life by reducing our homes obligations to fossil fuels and installing "state of the art" technology. I feel that if I were not so in-tune to these things, our solar installation just does not seem to as robust as expected. I also got a really good education on our system configuration from the crew that installed the system. They were kind to my shoulder surfing and questions - I don't suspect that happens a lot.

          So my ask to this board is: Is this degree of system management normal?


          What Brand, model and wattage panels did you get with your system?

          And how are your 6 arrays arranged?

          Which inverter did you get?

          Comment

          • Rade
            Member
            • Aug 2023
            • 94

            #6
            Originally posted by oregon_phil

            What Brand, model and wattage panels did you get with your system?

            And how are your 6 arrays arranged?

            Which inverter did you get?
            32 - Maxeon 3 solar panels, 410-420w. 2 arrays of 4 panels, 4 arrays of 6 panels. Batteries are Generac PWRCell - 6-3kW batteries (total 18kW), Inverter is Generac PWRCell. All in all the system works well, the problem we hit (TODAY) is that the intermediary technical/roofing crew is getting stonewalled by Generac technical support on repairing the installation. Physical parts in hand, Generac told them they were not approved to install, instead Generac did a code update (that failed before). We have on Photovoltaic link (PVLink) that keeps tossing out errors since the array was first powered up. Back to "Observe and report"...


            Our array.
            Array.png


            When the weather is cooperating, we ARE able to bank about 100kW a week in power above what the house consumes. Batteries are able to sustain the house until around 1AM, then we swap over to grid power until sunrise.
            Rade Radosevich-Slay
            Tiverton, RI

            Comment

            • scrambler
              Solar Fanatic
              • Mar 2019
              • 500

              #7
              It does take a while to learn all the intricacies of a Hybrid battery system.
              And it takes a while to iron out all the little bugs...

              It took me 18 months on mine, and I had to give up on many of the perks the system was supposed to have. But ultimately, I have the system running and fulfilling the basic needs, and I mostly run a monitoring report from the downloaded numbers on a monthly basis to make sure all is in order.

              Comment

              • J.P.M.
                Solar Fanatic
                • Aug 2013
                • 14926

                #8
                Originally posted by scrambler
                It does take a while to learn all the intricacies of a Hybrid battery system.
                And it takes a while to iron out all the little bugs...

                It took me 18 months on mine, and I had to give up on many of the perks the system was supposed to have. But ultimately, I have the system running and fulfilling the basic needs, and I mostly run a monitoring report from the downloaded numbers on a monthly basis to make sure all is in order.
                Sounds like you didn't get what you wanted or what you agreed to pay for.

                Comment

                • solardreamer
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • May 2015
                  • 446

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rade
                  We have on Photovoltaic link (PVLink) that keeps tossing out errors since the array was first powered up.
                  Are you using the SnapRS rapid shutdown devices? Those are known to be problematic and could be causing the PV Link errors you have seen. BTW, in case you are didn't know, SnapRS is part of multiple ongoing lawsuits against Generac.

                  Comment

                  • Rade
                    Member
                    • Aug 2023
                    • 94

                    #10
                    Originally posted by solardreamer

                    Are you using the SnapRS rapid shutdown devices? Those are known to be problematic and could be causing the PV Link errors you have seen. BTW, in case you are didn't know, SnapRS is part of multiple ongoing lawsuits against Generac.
                    No, we caught that YouTube video about the problems with those and checked with the rep before the installation. This is just one... fussy... PVLink.
                    Rade Radosevich-Slay
                    Tiverton, RI

                    Comment

                    • Rade
                      Member
                      • Aug 2023
                      • 94

                      #11
                      Originally posted by scrambler
                      It does take a while to learn all the intricacies of a Hybrid battery system.
                      And it takes a while to iron out all the little bugs...

                      It took me 18 months on mine, and I had to give up on many of the perks the system was supposed to have. But ultimately, I have the system running and fulfilling the basic needs, and I mostly run a monitoring report from the downloaded numbers on a monthly basis to make sure all is in order.
                      Thank you for that. In my mind I kind of suspect it will take a good year for the kinks to work out of the system. We're overall happy with it.
                      Rade Radosevich-Slay
                      Tiverton, RI

                      Comment

                      • oregon_phil
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Jan 2019
                        • 497

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Rade

                        32 - Maxeon 3 solar panels, 410-420w. 2 arrays of 4 panels, 4 arrays of 6 panels. Batteries are Generac PWRCell - 6-3kW batteries (total 18kW), Inverter is Generac PWRCell. All in all the system works well, the problem we hit (TODAY) is that the intermediary technical/roofing crew is getting stonewalled by Generac technical support on repairing the installation. Physical parts in hand, Generac told them they were not approved to install, instead Generac did a code update (that failed before). We have on Photovoltaic link (PVLink) that keeps tossing out errors since the array was first powered up. Back to "Observe and report"...


                        Our array.
                        Array.png


                        When the weather is cooperating, we ARE able to bank about 100kW a week in power above what the house consumes. Batteries are able to sustain the house until around 1AM, then we swap over to grid power until sunrise.
                        I would like to offer the following comments below, but please realize that I am not a solar installer. I am a retired Mechanical Engineer with process and design experience in the high tech industry. I am interested in solar power and like to help whenever possible. I downloaded the latest specifications from the Generac website and found the following:


                        1) One or more component specifications are being violated.

                        Component Specs
                        Maxeon 3 panels (420W used as example)
                        Voc = 80.5 Vdc
                        Vmpp = 67.7 Vdc

                        PVLink APKE00010
                        Voc Max when Cold = 420 Vdc
                        Mppt range = 60 to 360 Vdc

                        SnapRS APKE00011
                        PV Module Max Voc = 75 Vdc


                        a) SnapRS Max Voc allowed of 75 Vdc is being violated. Maxeon Voc 80.5 Vdc is greater than Snap RS Max Voc of 75 Vdc.

                        Using a string length of 6 as an example:

                        b) PVLink max Voc limit of 420 Vdc is being violated. 6 x 80.5 Vdc = 483 Vdc. 483 Vdc > 420 Vdc (Panel Voc may increase in winter due to temperature coefficient).

                        c) PVLink Mppt range of 60 to 360 Vdc is being violated. 6 x 67.7 Vdc = 406.2 Vdc


                        Of course I could be totally wrong because maybe Generac posted the wrong specs on their website. This is the brochure I used: "pwrcell_consumerbrochure_202212_digital.pdf" .

                        If I am not mistaken, then eventually Generac is going to say the system violates the three items I mentioned above. Since this is a new system, if it were me, I would get Generac to validate the system one way or another in writing just in case you have warranty events in the future.


                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • scrambler
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • Mar 2019
                          • 500

                          #13
                          Originally posted by J.P.M.

                          Sounds like you didn't get what you wanted or what you agreed to pay for.
                          You can say that again....
                          My journey in solar was probably the worst case scenario. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

                          After a lot of work on my part and a reset in expectation, I did get to a point where I am happy with the system though....

                          Comment

                          • J.P.M.
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Aug 2013
                            • 14926

                            #14
                            Originally posted by scrambler

                            You can say that again....
                            My journey in solar was probably the worst case scenario. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

                            After a lot of work on my part and a reset in expectation, I did get to a point where I am happy with the system though....
                            OK, Sounds like you didn't get what you wanted or what you agreed to pay for.

                            Sometimes you get stuck with bad karma.

                            When running engineering projects back in the day, and always for reasons I could not understand, but 1X/awhile a project would go south for unfathomable reasons (and usually unexplainable even at the project autopsies), and it turned into a magnet for weird problems to the point where there was the devil to pay to get it back on track for cost, schedule and startup.

                            Comment

                            • Rade
                              Member
                              • Aug 2023
                              • 94

                              #15
                              Originally posted by oregon_phil

                              a) SnapRS Max Voc allowed of 75 Vdc is being violated. Maxeon Voc 80.5 Vdc is greater than Snap RS Max Voc of 75 Vdc.

                              Using a string length of 6 as an example:

                              b) PVLink max Voc limit of 420 Vdc is being violated. 6 x 80.5 Vdc = 483 Vdc. 483 Vdc > 420 Vdc (Panel Voc may increase in winter due to temperature coefficient).

                              c) PVLink Mppt range of 60 to 360 Vdc is being violated. 6 x 67.7 Vdc = 406.2 Vdc

                              Of course I could be totally wrong because maybe Generac posted the wrong specs on their website. This is the brochure I used: "pwrcell_consumerbrochure_202212_digital.pdf" .

                              If I am not mistaken, then eventually Generac is going to say the system violates the three items I mentioned above. Since this is a new system, if it were me, I would get Generac to validate the system one way or another in writing just in case you have warranty events in the future.

                              Thank you for that! The problem is that this one PVLink is situated on an area of our roof that, for a period of time each day, gets intermittent sun due to the proximity of a cypress tree usually blowing in the wind. According to the Generac technicians, that rapid intermittency in the power spike causes the inverter to think the array is malfunctioning, and it throws the Ground Fault. Generac (once again - 4th time!) adjusted the parameters on the PVLink to accommodate those environmental issues.

                              The other thing I need to take into consideration is that - this is a new system - these components are under full warranty by Generac. I cannot adjust many of the parameters beyond what is covered in the Owners Manual. If I touch the code, I can void the warranty. But I will relay the above to my local authorized service team.

                              Rade Radosevich-Slay
                              Tiverton, RI

                              Comment

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