Pricing

[fraser]

It's a racket. I saw and ad for 27 panels of 440 wats for 11K. I may need 30 of those, that should not be more that 13K. Installation I know takes 5 man days, another 3K at 500 per day, plus 1K frames and wiring 1K . That adds up to 18K. How do they come up with 39K?

Retail prices for all but the most advanced panels should be in the $.55-60/watt range. If you shop, and buy a pallet (about the right number anyway), then you can get to 50 cent/watt or lower.

[RichardCullip]

I will check them out. But in the meantime I´ve done several things to reduce my usage from about 1950 kwh average to 1360. Efficient equipment, sealed windows, shade trees, etc...go a long way saving electricity here in Florida.Thanks,

Is that a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly average?

[aranala]

I will check them out. But in the meantime I´ve done several things to reduce my usage from about 1950 kwh average to 1360. Efficient equipment, sealed windows, shade trees, etc...go a long way saving electricity here in Florida.Thanks,

[Will792]

How many panels, 50? I would need maybe 32 panels of 440 w. I´m willing to pay 22K, but never 39.

In my case I used residential 60 cell panels, 52 LG Neon 2 330s and 20 old Suniva 270s. You do get lower cost per W with “commercial” 72 cell panels but sometimes smaller size of 60 cell panels is a benefit.

I read that many PV installation companies spend 25% of their budget on sales force. You know, these useless solar sales people in Costco and HD. I do see need for sales budget but 25% is insane.

If your installation is simple you should get a quote from Tesla. Their customer service surely is lacking but their installers are very professional. Panels they currently use are 72 cell Q cells, highly ranked manufacturer. Most recent installations use their own inverters but looks like they managed to design decent unit. Prior to that they used SolarEdge with optimizers. Tesla pricing is commonly way lower than competitors but they do not take any projects that are not cookie cutter type.

I had 3 PowerWalls with Tesla gateway installed couple of years ago and 2 guys who did all work were top notch.

[foggysail]

How many panels, 50? I would need maybe 32 panels of 440 w. I´m willing to pay 22K, but never 39.

YEAH!!! Until reality sets in! True cost may not be 39K but it certainly will not be 22 either.

[aranala]

How many panels, 50? I would need maybe 32 panels of 440 w. I´m willing to pay 22K, but never 39.

[Will792]

It's a racket. I saw and ad for 27 panels of 440 wats for 11K. I may need 30 of those, that should not be more that 13K. Installation I know takes 5 man days, another 3K at 500 per day, plus 1K frames and wiring 1K . That adds up to 18K. How do they come up with 39K?

I did DIY installation of 22.4KW system a couple of years ago and one surprise was that panel costs were only 40% of total. Rails, brackets, mounts, electrical supplies, combiner panels, disconnect switches, connectors and J boxes were 5 or 6 K. Fees to utility company and my city building department were more than $700. My total cost was around 26K, before federal tax credit, and obviously it does not include value of my time.

Fortunately I had access to panels and microinverters at wholesale prices, which did help to lower the total. I am not trying to justify pricing you get but want to point out that there are a lot of costs in quality solar installation that are not obvious unless you actually do it. Even bill for sealing mastic (Geocell 4500) was in 100s.

[Mike 134]

BC I know all of that I don´t need them. Just install the freaking panels. I know my peak generation hours, my peak usage hours, how many, what type , where to put them, what the cost and how much I will sell to and buy from FPL and at what price and cost to me..

Well to just "install the panels" you need a permit, likely a structure review by a structure engineer, pay the installers a living wage, insure them, tool costs, truck costs to get them to the jobsite..........

I think you're best option is forget all those rules and just do it yourself. Like you said you have it all figured out.

[aranala]

BC I know all of that I don´t need them. Just install the freaking panels. I know my peak generation hours, my peak usage hours, how many, what type , where to put them, what the cost and how much I will sell to and buy from FPL and at what price and cost to me..

[foggysail]

Get a clue. Current wholesale pricing on Tier 1, USA made PV panels is 65 cents a watt. And that is after a recent 25% increase recently - The first time I've ever seen industry prices rise. Inverters are under 20 cents a watt. !0 cents for balance of system. Actual labor costs are under a dollar/watt. You do the math. There are always a lot of get-rich-quick scammers drawn to any lucrative business. Of course, we are in a fairly reasonable cost of living area of the country.... We even spent all last winter under $2/watt when we liquidated a semi of panels for half price.

$2.25/WATT May be competitive in your area but here in good old Taxachusetts system installations are $3 and up. Too bad you are not in my area, I could give you my job along with my daughters.

Earlier Mike134 mentioned permits but there is more. PE stamps---$500 minimum that I found, direct labor if you can find them with pay rates about $50/hour after adding workers comp, SS, insurance, Fed & State taxes, office cost, equipment storage facility, vehicles and the list goes on. The toughest challenge for anybody running a business is meeting a payroll. I know, been there done that.

Don't sell yourself short. You are in business to make $ not friends. Just my humble thoughts.

[J.P.M.]

Mike, you are missing the point. The panel installers want to know what my bill is so they can charge me something similar. -When I tell them they don't need to know that, and give them my monthly use in kwh instead, but they say that is not what they need!!!My profit would be the tax credit. I decided to do without them. I have taken measures to save, tight windows, reinstalled the ol bahamian shutters, shade trees east and west, insulation, LED lights only, new AC and smart thermostat, tankless WH and my bill for the last 12 months was 31% lower than for the previous 12 months,. Until they act like the AC installers I will not answer their calls.

Give the vendors 25 numbers. The first 12 are your prior average monthly usage in kWh. The second 12 months are your expected monthly average usage after all the improvements. The last number is what percentage of your expected average 12 month total usage you have determined you want to offset with PV.

Before you do that however, if you take about an hour or so to learn what PVWatts is all about and then spend a bit more time to learn how to use it, you'll be a lot better informed about how to accomplish what you want. You'll also have a system size that suits your needs without relying on vendors.

The best way to not get screwed is to be informed. Spend about $ 25 or so and buy/read "Solar Power Your home for Dummies". You need an education.

[aranala]

Mike, you are missing the point. The panel installers want to know what my bill is so they can charge me something similar. -When I tell them they don't need to know that, and give them my monthly use in kwh instead, but they say that is not what they need!!!My profit would be the tax credit. I decided to do without them. I have taken measures to save, tight windows, reinstalled the ol bahamian shutters, shade trees east and west, insulation, LED lights only, new AC and smart thermostat, tankless WH and my bill for the last 12 months was 31% lower than for the previous 12 months,. Until they act like the AC installers I will not answer their calls.

[solarix]

Get a clue. Current wholesale pricing on Tier 1, USA made PV panels is 65 cents a watt. And that is after a recent 25% increase recently - The first time I've ever seen industry prices rise. Inverters are under 20 cents a watt. !0 cents for balance of system. Actual labor costs are under a dollar/watt. You do the math. There are always a lot of get-rich-quick scammers drawn to any lucrative business. Of course, we are in a fairly reasonable cost of living area of the country.... We even spent all last winter under $2/watt when we liquidated a semi of panels for half price.

[Mike 134]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

$2.25/WATT???? IS THAT A MISTAKE, SURELY YOU MEANT $3.25 OR EVEN $3.99/ WATT!

I have and continue to shop. The very best price so far that I have received in Ashland, MA is $3.20/watt.

I thought the same thing. I DIY install and even with trade pricing was at $1.55/watt after all the extra do dads like a new panel, import and export CTs, revenue grade meter, spare 405 watt panel and optimizer.

I should back out all the extras and see what a bare bones cost would be.

[foggysail]

We offer customers a fair deal of around $2.25/watt and we are so busy we are breaking down with medical problems as me and my people are all getting old. The hardest part of my business is finding young people willing to work that have a brain and the humility to learn from our experience. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and should crank up the pricing.... but I put in solar long ago at my place and i just want to share the blessings of solar with my neighbors. Problem is that the FEDeral gravy train has conditioned most of the populace to think they "deserve" and don't have to work for it. I bet for every hard working installer out there, there is an online entrepreneur that is trying to get rich quick by selling solar or solar leads and then trying to get someone else to install it.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

$2.25/WATT???? IS THAT A MISTAKE, SURELY YOU MEANT $3.25 OR EVEN $3.99/ WATT!

I have and continue to shop. The very best price so far that I have received in Ashland, MA is $3.20/watt.