Energy prices

[Cshama]

The crazy heating oil prices make me really glad I switched to solar and electric heating last year.

Electric Utilities say we are hurting the poor by switching to solar but isn’t it the opposite. Less demand has to lower prices for everyone.

I personally am using 1500 gallons of heating oil less this year

[RichardCullip]

That’s one way to look at it. However in my situation I’m using the SDG&E electrical grid for free. For the last three years since I put in solar my cumulative electric bill will be a bit less than zero when I true up next month. I am not contributing anything to the upkeep and maintenance to the grid. Some other folks are picking up my share of the cost.

[SunEagle]

The crazy heating oil prices make me really glad I switched to solar and electric heating last year.

Electric Utilities say we are hurting the poor by switching to solar but isn’t it the opposite. Less demand has to lower prices for everyone.

I personally am using 1500 gallons of heating oil less this year

The problem you are missing is that a lower demand can also cause prices to raise so the seller can make a profit. People will still need heating oil or electricity and to stay warm and run their electronics they will still have to purchase those items. What the price will be is going to be what the seller sets it at because there may not be any competition between sellers to keep the price down.

[Cshama]

That’s one way to look at it. However in my situation I’m using the SDG&E electrical grid for free. For the last three years since I put in solar my cumulative electric bill will be a bit less than zero when I true up next month. I am not contributing anything to the upkeep and maintenance to the grid. Some other folks are picking up my share of the cost.

That is certainly a good point. But oil also has costs over and above the price it’s sold for. I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t be involved in a ton of wars if it were not for oil.

[J.P.M.]

The crazy heating oil prices make me really glad I switched to solar and electric heating last year.

Electric Utilities say we are hurting the poor by switching to solar but isn’t it the opposite. Less demand has to lower prices for everyone.

I personally am using 1500 gallons of heating oil less this year

And the less well heeled (or govt. subsidies and programs that pay a lot of the bills) are paying more per unit of energy. 'Splain that to me Rickey.

No, in that case the POCO's have a point - partly because they have (perhaps inadvertently) worked in callous disregard to make that outcome a reality).

Distributed alternate energy does not provide much benefit to the poor. I don't see many arrays in the ghettos - even in So. CA.

I live in what's thought to be a somewhat affluent gated community with about 30% of the homes with PV. The average usage for all owners keeps going up about 5 - 10%/yr. - The PV households generally closer to the 10 % number.

Seems clear to me that the way(s) alternate energy is subsidized doesn't work for the poor any better than trickle-down economics.

Being a believer in free market capitalism, but also a big believer in alternate energy, I believe the cause of alternate energy would have been better off if the gov. would have stayed out of alternate energy development entirely.

Subsidies and tax credits have delayed advancements by suppressing development while allowing too many lay-about losers to drag off the public tit and claim they're saving the planet. If alternate energy can't survive without tax credits, then it doesn't deserve a place in the energy mix. With subsidies, alternat energy is addicted to gov. largess and all its uncertainties. It becomes dependent on government not unlike welfare clients.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Will792]

The crazy heating oil prices make me really glad I switched to solar and electric heating last year.

Electric Utilities say we are hurting the poor by switching to solar but isn’t it the opposite. Less demand has to lower prices for everyone.

I personally am using 1500 gallons of heating oil less this year

I installed decent size PV system and replaced hydro to air handlers using heating oil boiler with Mitsubishi compressors and air handlers, using the same boiler as backup heat source. My house used to consume around 800 gallons of heating oil. This winter is milder than typical but based on similar winter temperatures my heating oil consumption should be roughly 150 gallons per year.

My Mitsubishi compressors operate with external temperature above 13F, which does require a good backup heat source. Electric resistance coils were not an option for me since each requires its own 50A circuit. Mitsubishi makes compressors that work at temperature as low as -17F (aka Hyper Heat models) but those have higher current draw and my intent was to allow 2 compressors operation and some house circuits from 3 PowerWalls with 70A current budget.

CT recently announced some program to subsidize heating oil furnaces and boilers replacement with heat pumps. Unfortunately I completed my installation by the time program was created.

At this point my house heating, DHW, house electric and most driving do not have additional cost. Since I installed PV system myself, except PWs installed by Tesla, payback should be around 4-5 years. If price of heating oil and/or electricity goes up it might go even lower.

Unfortunately there are some downsides in the options I picked. Heating oil system is still essential component and heating oil tends to create sludge when stored for a long time. It means that I have to add anti sludge chemical, each time I get delivery. Also boiler does not like to be totally off when it is cold outside. It is exposed to outside through a chimney and gets condensation that rusts the boiler, when it is cold. My original plan was to keep boiler off completely as long as outside temperature is above 20F. I had to change it a bit to have boiler run at lower water temperature to avoid condensation and only have 170F-180F water temperature when it is expected to provide backup heat.

[bcroe]

I used some heat pumps rated down to -20F or -25F. Slightly less eficient,
but allow me to avoid resistive heating. I am a bit over equipped, to be sure
of enough capacity. DIY installing cut cost to about 40% or retail, but no
rebates that way.

Your oil system had disadvantages. My backup is propane, no aging issues.
A high efficiency furnace takes in outside flame air and sends it back out, so
there is not a continuous chimney leak. Bruce Roe