TOU-D-4-9PM vs TOU-D-5-8PM vs TOU-D-PRIME. Surprising results!

[josefontao]

Now that SCE has forced me to move to TOU-D-4-9PM from the old grandfatherd TOU-D-A that I used to have, my yearly bill will increase significantly. I was scratching my head how to calculate the different rates based on my usage. I use PVOutput to track my system so I plugged in the numbers for each tariff for both winter and summer months and this is what my 2021 would have been with each tariff. The numbers below include daily service charges and baseline credits whenever necessary.

TOU-D-4-9PM: $1203.67
TOU-D-5-8PM: $1020.88
TOU-D-PRIME: $1274.14

So it turns out 5-8 would be the cheapest plan for me based on my usage by ~$200. At first glance I thought PRIME would save me money, but looks can be deceiving I guess.

Mind you that in the old TOU-D-A plan I only paid $300 for the year.
And would they let me be in the tiered plan, I would be paying ~$800 instead. So TOU for solar users works against them. Thank you SCE, Newsom and the CPUC for being a big bag of d|cks! and punishing solar users and increasing my rates by 300% in one fell swoop. Bunch of a$$hole$!

[Ampster]

Now that SCE has forced me to move to TOU-D-4-9PM from the old grandfatherd TOU-D-A that I used to have, my yearly bill will increase significantly. I was scratching my head how to calculate the different rates based on my usage. I use PVOutput to track my system so I plugged in the numbers for each tariff for both winter and summer months and this is what my 2021 would have been with each tariff.

How did that compare with using the SCE calculator on their website?. I was not aware that was one of the benefits of using PVOutput. I will have to remember that.

.

So it turns out 5-8 would be the cheapest plan for me based on my usage by ~$200. At first glance I thought PRIME would save me money, but looks can be deceiving I guess.

Mind you that in the old TOU-D-A plan I only paid $300 for the year.
And would they let me be in the tiered plan, I would be paying ~$800 instead. So TOU for solar users works against them. Thank you SCE, Newsom and the CPUC for being a big bag of d|cks! and punishing solar users and increasing my rates by 300% in one fell swoop. Bunch of a$$hole$!

I have been on TOU rates for ten years and have definitely seen an erosion of benefits. My brother has solar and managed to stay on a tiered plan. He recently asked my advice about moving to a TOU rate and based on his consumption even with two EVs I told him he was better off staying on the tiered plan. I never thought I would advise someone to do that based on my prior ability to game the TOU rates. Now my only hope is to use batteries and behind the meter solar to keep my costs down. I also have GT solar with a recent NEM agreement but my strategy is to self consume as much as I can. I just put 50 miles on one of my EVs from solar.

[FFE]

I didn’t bother with anything based on past usage since we used energy based on previous TOU schedules. I just looked at total usage and several theoretical iterations. It eventually worked out best if I could keep my total between 5 and 9 pm below 1,800 kWh per year using the PRIME plan. That is about 1 kWh per hour for those 5 hours. So far in the first month on the new plan (worst time of year other than summer) we have been averaging 0.7 kWh per hour in that time period. It should be easy 3 out of the 4 seasons to do that. In summer we will have to see if getting it to 70 degrees before 4 pm will keep the house from getting too hot before 9 pm. I dream of a fully independent solar/battery system that runs a mini split. But the building code involved in that makes my head spin. SCE said now I pay $300 per year and all three plans they estimated $1,300 per year. I think I can keep it to under $900 per year. The devaluation of the energy my panels produce changed my break even date. I have lots of shade and knew going in what that meant. As a pessimist I calculated 10 year break even. After 6 years I was on track to make it in 7. With the rate change I am looking at 8 years. So, two more years from now I will be all set.

[josefontao]

How did that compare with using the SCE calculator on their website?. I was not aware that was one of the benefits of using PVOutput. I will have to remember that.

I have been on TOU rates for ten years and have definitely seen an erosion of benefits. My brother has solar and managed to stay on a tiered plan. He recently asked my advice about moving to a TOU rate and based on his consumption even with two EVs I told him he was better off staying on the tiered plan. I never thought I would advise someone to do that based on my prior ability to game the TOU rates. Now my only hope is to use batteries and behind the meter solar to keep my costs down. I also have GT solar with a recent NEM agreement but my strategy is to self consume as much as I can. I just put 50 miles on one of my EVs from solar.

The SCE calculator doesnt work for me. It says something about my account and to call them. who has time for that.

Ive thought about batteries too, but I just dont see the ROI.

[josefontao]

I didn’t bother with anything based on past usage since we used energy based on previous TOU schedules. I just looked at total usage and several theoretical iterations. It eventually worked out best if I could keep my total between 5 and 9 pm below 1,800 kWh per year using the PRIME plan. That is about 1 kWh per hour for those 5 hours. So far in the first month on the new plan (worst time of year other than summer) we have been averaging 0.7 kWh per hour in that time period. It should be easy 3 out of the 4 seasons to do that. In summer we will have to see if getting it to 70 degrees before 4 pm will keep the house from getting too hot before 9 pm. I dream of a fully independent solar/battery system that runs a mini split. But the building code involved in that makes my head spin. SCE said now I pay $300 per year and all three plans they estimated $1,300 per year. I think I can keep it to under $900 per year. The devaluation of the energy my panels produce changed my break even date. I have lots of shade and knew going in what that meant. As a pessimist I calculated 10 year break even. After 6 years I was on track to make it in 7. With the rate change I am looking at 8 years. So, two more years from now I will be all set.

To me, any investment with an ROI greater than 4-5 years is not worth it. Specially energy stuff. I dont know if I would keep the house that long so i rather err in the safe side of things. Thankfully, for me, my ROI on the solar panels was just shy of 4 years.

If I could find a battery large enough with an ROI around there, I'd get it. But so far what I'm seeing is 8-10 years ROI. Again, for me, not worth it.

But to stay on topic, I really dont know how the power company gets away with increasing our rates by 300% from one year to the next. This should be illegal.

[Ampster]

To me, any investment with an ROI greater than 4-5 years is not worth it. Specially energy stuff. I dont know if I would keep the house that long so i rather err in the safe side of things. Thankfully, for me, my ROI on the solar panels was just shy of 4 years.

We all have different costs of funds and that affects the time in which we need to recover our capital. There are other factors like a hedge on inflation that factor into my analysis and residual value.

If I could find a battery large enough with an ROI around there, I'd get it. But so far what I'm seeing is 8-10 years ROI. Again, for me, not worth it.

But to stay on topic, I really dont know how the power company gets away with increasing our rates by 300% from one year to the next. This should be illegal.

I did a 42 kWh DIY battery that seemed big enough last year. With the continued erosion of NEM benefits a larger battery might allow me to self consume more of my generation and lower my overall cost.

I have not seen rates increase 300% but I no longer have a four to one rate differential between receiving credit for generation and what I pay for energy stored on the grid.
Rough numbers for my peak rate in the past ten years has gone from $0.43 to $0.51 per kwh for peak and from $0.10 to $0.20 per kWh for off peak.

[silversaver]

The new SCE rate plan TOUs or Tier plan were really base on your power demand. I am also force out of TOU-D-A last year into Tier plan instead of TOU. The 4-9 or 5-9 TOU isn't working for me. You don't need to use SCE calculator, you can just looking into your power usage peak hours and total consumption.

Long story short, none of the TOU plan will benefit solar users unless you have battery system. Solar production after 4pm is really not much, so you are not getting the benefit of sell high buy low as what it used to be in the old TOU plan, but instead you sell at same or lower rate.

Back to more simple plan: Tier plan. If you size your solar properly, your bill won't be too high. TOU-D-Prime might works for those have high demand on EVs

Note: I build the solar to cover 100% usage back in 2013. The TOU-D-A plan is great help cover 2 EVs too. The new plan make me cut down to one EV instead.

I believe you can add 10% or 1kW (base on your system size) as addition to your current system without resubmit another application.