CALIFORNIA residents.Please take a minute to make a public comment on NEM3.0 proposal

[Duxa]

Public comments can be made here: https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=40...ELECT:R2008020

Public comments can be read here - https://apps.cpuc.ca.gov/apex/f?p=401:65:0::NO:::

Summary of NEM 3.0 proposal:

1. If you want to go solar in CA but have not, the time to do so is now! You have until at least May 28th to receive PTO and be grandfathered into NEM 2.0 for 15 years.
2. The one exception to this is if you are on CARE or FERA, you can actually receive bill credits and not pay the monthly solar fees. The benefit is $4.36-$5.25 (for PG&E and SCE, there is no incentive for SDG&E) per kW per month for ten years From the language of the proposal, you only need to qualify, not actually be on either of these programs. Check your eligibility here: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/fera/
3. If you have gone solar and are grandfathered into NEM 1 or 2, your grandfathering window has been reduced to 15 years from the date of PTO, not the date NEM goes into effect.
4. The value of NEM credits is going down to roughly 5 cents per kWh. There is no way to calculate it more accurately than that for now until we start seeing utility rate sheets with updated rates.
5. If you have a problem with this utility-backed, anti-competitive money grab, and are located in CA, please leave a public

Source - https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comme...tire_204_page/

[mdscole]

I understand the rational for making these changes, but it really kills the financial incentive for going solar without storage. Setting the grandfathering from the initial date of installation instead of the date the law goes into effect is especially damaging. With an installation of 2011, I only have 4 more years of NEM 1.0 before the value drops dramatically.

[solardreamer]

The real killer is the $8/kW solar capacity "Grid Participation" monthly fee. Breakeven period will be 10+ years even for solar paired with storage installs that take advantage of the market transition credit incentives that would phase out in a few years. It's pretty obvious they want to kill rooftop solar.

I wonder how many home solar installers will go out of business. I remember reading more than half of home solar installers went out of business when Hawaii ended NEM and their new tariff is not nearly as punitive against home solar owners as the proposal here.

[SunEagle]

Unfortunately it was only a matter of time before the CPUC's would side with the POCO's.

The same is happening with roads. Part of every gallon of gas purchased it put towards upkeep of the roadway system. With more EV's being driven the less money you get to keep the roads up to date.

You can't use a system (grid or road) without helping to pay for the upkeep.

[Duxa]

I wrote to my representative and local news agency linking them to the comments section on CPUC website and expressing my dissatisfaction with NEM 3.0. I suggest everyone does the same, takes like 5 minutes.

SunEagle, as an EV owner I pay $250 per year fee when I renew my registration because it is an EV and I dont buy gas. This is equivalent (in tax) to buying around 15000 miles worth of gas. I drive about 1/3 of that. So I pay higher tax as an EV owner than I would if I bought gas.

Here is how I did the math. California charges 61c tax per gallon. $250 that I pay in EV tax divided by 61c is 410 gallons of gas. At 35MPG (common for a new car) thats 14.3k miles

So I drive about 5k miles but pay taxes on 14.3k.

[SunEagle]

I wrote to my representative and local news agency linking them to the comments section on CPUC website and expressing my dissatisfaction with NEM 3.0. I suggest everyone does the same, takes like 5 minutes.

SunEagle, as an EV owner I pay $250 per year fee when I renew my registration because it is an EV and I dont buy gas. This is equivalent (in tax) to buying around 15000 miles worth of gas. I drive about 1/3 of that. So I pay higher tax as an EV owner than I would if I bought gas.

Here is how I did the math. California charges 61c tax per gallon. $250 that I pay in EV tax divided by 61c is 410 gallons of gas. At 35MPG (common for a new car) thats 14.3k miles

So I drive about 5k miles but pay taxes on 14.3k.

I understand that you pay more for road upkeep, but the vast majority may not because they may not have an EV Fee. As long as more people start to drive EV's and unless everyone is charged to help keep up the roads they will fall apart just like the POCO's grid.

Look I don't like the idea that POCO's are allowed to change the NET metering rules but I also understand that they have to keep the lights on for all of their customers. And that requires money which they charge for. If you want to save money then I would suggest people find a way to use less electricity just like some people are using less gas. Conservation on all fronts is the best way to save.

Oh and I don't know of any ICE vehicles that get 35mpg but hey if that is what you want to hang your hat on then ok.

[solardreamer]

You can't use a system (grid or road) without helping to pay for the upkeep.

Sure but why a special fee just for solar owners? The proposal in its current form would charge solar home owners very high fees even if they don't export to the grid.
One consistent fixed fee for everyone for baseline grid upkeep would be much more reasonable.

[Duxa]

I understand that you pay more for road upkeep, but the vast majority may not because they may not have an EV Fee. As long as more people start to drive EV's and unless everyone is charged to help keep up the roads they will fall apart just like the POCO's grid.

Look I don't like the idea that POCO's are allowed to change the NET metering rules but I also understand that they have to keep the lights on for all of their customers. And that requires money which they charge for. If you want to save money then I would suggest people find a way to use less electricity just like some people are using less gas. Conservation on all fronts is the best way to save.

Oh and I don't know of any ICE vehicles that get 35mpg but hey if that is what you want to hang your hat on then ok.

Well, the registration fee is state wide. So all of California, any EV owner pays that fee. As far as MPG, drove Honda Accord before, and got about 36MPG on road trips. Toyota Corola gets close to 40MPG. Same goes for Korean cars (Kias and Hyndai).

And if you own a hybrid, then you potentially get close to 60MPG without paying the EV tax.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...=1&rowLimit=50

Even if you halve the MPG to 17.5MPG, which is like unheard of 1970's gas guzzler. Then still Id be paying LESS in gas taxes than the EV tax (7175 miles worth of gas at 17.5MPG). Basically my point is that EV owners are subsidizing higher chunk of the roads than gasoline car owners.

[Duxa]

You can't use a system (grid or road) without helping to pay for the upkeep.

When I generate a Kw extra, it goes maybe 50 feet to my neighbor. I get compensated 2cents for it at whole sale prices. The neighbor pays the utility 46 cents for it (at standard rates). That is 2300% profit for the utility company, who has to do nothing. They use 0000 AWG wire to g o from house to house. 50 feet of it at wholesale prices is around $50, and it will last at least 20 years. On top of that, I reduced strain on the grid, because the neighbor is not pulling power for miles from the utility, they are pulling it 50 feet.

At the 2300% profit margin that covers any salaries, materials etc to do maintenance. Plus we have infrastructure budget that they get that covers all that already..... and STILL they arent happy. Still they need more money. Meanwhile executives are taking this money to give themselves millions in bonuses. The kicker is that to get the 2300% profit they didnt lift a finger. They didnt invest into the array, they didnt have to pay for any of it. Its just given to them. It uses infrastructure that has been there for decades and will be there for decades.

You may say... what about rest of the infrastructure that needs to be maintained. Well its 50 feet at a time like that from house to house, the 2300% from each solar producer covers that chunk of infrastructure all the way to the utility itself. Its all covered. And again, thats not even including millions in infrastructure budget that they get.

[SunEagle]

Well, the registration fee is state wide. So all of California, any EV owner pays that fee. As far as MPG, drove Honda Accord before, and got about 36MPG on road trips. Toyota Corola gets close to 40MPG. Same goes for Korean cars (Kias and Hyndai).

And if you own a hybrid, then you potentially get close to 60MPG without paying the EV tax.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...=1&rowLimit=50

Even if you halve the MPG to 17.5MPG, which is like unheard of 1970's gas guzzler. Then still Id be paying LESS in gas taxes than the EV tax (7175 miles worth of gas at 17.5MPG). Basically my point is that EV owners are subsidizing higher chunk of the roads than gasoline car owners.

I understand the drivers in CA have to pay an EV fee but not every state has that fee so all EV owners do not help keep the roads safe. I also live in rural Florida where most people around me drive V8 trucks that maybe get 15MPG going downhill with the wind behind them. So please don't believe every new ICE vehicle gets great gas mileage.

Unless one of the vehicle manufacturers gets their head out of you know where I doubt I will every drive an EV truck but there is always hope.

As for the new law for NET metering, I have always said that is bad news for the solar industry. The reduction of what someone that net generates gets paid will go down. It happened in Nevada and my guess it will happen again in other states. So again I can think of the best way to save money is to use less electricity.

Look we can keep arguing about the new rules or we can agree that the only way to get them changed is to vote out the crappy Politian's that want to ruin the people of CA.

[solardreamer]

So again I can think of the best way to save money is to use less electricity.

You are not fully understanding the proposal. As it stands, if you have 10kW solar then you have to pay $80/month even if you use no electricity.

[Duxa]

You are not fully understanding the proposal. As it stands, if you have 10kW solar then you have to pay $80/month even if you use no electricity.

Yup, its $8 per month per Kw installed (based on panels). So even if its Winter and you are generating 50% of summer generation you basic bill is still $80. If your panels are 10 years old and are less efficient, still $80. If you get a battery and completely use only the battery/solar not pulling a watt from the grid, still $80 minimum. And it is illegal to disconnect from the grid.

[SunEagle]

You are not fully understanding the proposal. As it stands, if you have 10kW solar then you have to pay $80/month even if you use no electricity.

Or find a way to not pay by changing the rule. You have to remember that people that can install a 10kw solar grid tie system should be able to afford the monthly fee. I mean isn't that the new socialistic way that the government wants?

Or you can move to a cheaper state like Florida where my electric is maybe $0.08/kWh and gas is a dollar cheaper then just about anywhere in CA.

[solardreamer]

Or find a way to not pay by changing the rule. You have to remember that people that can install a 10kw solar grid tie system should be able to afford the monthly fee. I mean isn't that the new socialistic way that the government wants?

Or you can move to a cheaper state like Florida where my electric is maybe $0.08/kWh and gas is a dollar cheaper then just about anywhere in CA.

Don't take it the wrong way but I would rather rip out my solar system than moving to FL

[J.P.M.]

Or find a way to not pay by changing the rule. You have to remember that people that can install a 10kw solar grid tie system should be able to afford the monthly fee. I mean isn't that the new socialistic way that the government wants?

Or you can move to a cheaper state like Florida where my electric is maybe $0.08/kWh and gas is a dollar cheaper then just about anywhere in CA.

SunEagle, FWIW :

Too much illogic, exaggerated/inflated numbers and fact invention/ twistng by others here.

"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine.

As far as moving goes or choice of where to live, pay your money, take your choice.