Mothballing Solar Electric Panels

[DanS26]

Greg.....the real decision you have is not whether to shut down your array for three months which by the way is just throwing a breaker or switch.

The real decision you have is to pick the right rate plan from whomever is providing power to you. That means understanding your distributed generation contract and staying on top of the POCO rate schedules and rules.

I suspect you cannot change your rate plan willy-nilly throughout the year, thus you have to pick a plan and stay with it for its duration to gain the maximum benefit. That means making a long term decision that is not totally based on short term adverse effects ie winter low production.

It's going to be stretch for me to visualize a plan that does not involve net metering to be a greater benefit. IMO you should put pencil to paper and find the plan with the greatest long term benefit. My bet is on the net metering plan. Yes you pay more in the winter but the total year it's much better.

[J.P.M.]

If I am missing something, pls tell me. If you are implying that I don't know the PUC and PPL rules very well, I will agree; but the rules are changing constantly and I did go to the utility several times before I came here.

That's pretty much what I'm implying, so it looks like we agree, as confirmed (it would look to me) by the first sentence of your first post.

You can take all the offense you want, but I'd suggest if you don't like what you get in the way of response to requests for comment, be careful what you ask for.

You asked for suggestions. I offered a couple. Another: If you're relying on conversations w/the POCO, do a deep dive into POCO regs. and tariffs. That mostly worked well or at least allowed me to ask more informed questions when I talked to the POCO.

I appreciate, probably more than most, that dealing with POCO rules, policies and tariffs is about as much fun as having root canal work done by going through the rectum without the benefit of drugs or sedation. And yes, constant changes are a fact of life in utility regulations. I learned to deal with them.

BTW, not everyone who tells you things you may not like is out to hurt you.

Take what of the above. Scrap the rest.

[gfsch]

Seems to me a lot of the OP's questions and confusion could be dealt with by a dive into his POCO's tariff structure and net metering and the form it takes, and also a better understanding of how his particular equipment works.

I am a little confused here and maybe taking a little offense. I reread my post and my statements were: I am losing money by running the panels in the winter. That is still true. "I am forced into higher rates because of net metering. That is still true. The cost of electricity in Pa are between $.045 teaser rate and .093 for net metering. Those are still true. The issue I confused everybody with is those are for generation only and do not include my $.068/kwh distribution rate.

The only issues I got wrong was that it appeared to me the meter could read all my generation, which it could not. And My utility may have net metering at $.073/kwh which isn't clear from the PUC web site nor from numerous phone calls to the utility. I will find out for sure Monday, but even with that I will "only" be $45 out of pocket instead of $89 for the month of December 2020. The first issue has no effect on my situation and the second mitigated it


You state I need a better understanding of my [system]. Please explain what I don't know about my system. If I am missing something, pls tell me. If you are implying that I don't know the PUC and PPL rules very well, I will agree; but the rules are changing constantly and I did go to the utility several times before I came here.


As I stated earlier, I do appreciate all the help the guys provided. At this point I disconnected the panels and went with the $.045 rate. I will look into whether the utility gives me net metering at a rate different than published on the PUC site but even with this rate, I am financially better off disconnecting the panels in the winter months. I will look into the Envoy metered, but that would cost me 25% of my solar output.

Thanks again
Greg

[J.P.M.]

Is it just me or do others think the book "Solar Power for Dummies" needs an addendum.......or maybe an entire new chapter.

If you asking a serious question, as SunEagle writes, a new(er) and revised version is available. Usually with "how to" or information books, there are always areas in that can be improved. That's also one reason for references at the end of chapters or the whole tome.

But I'm curious - aside from being a pretty good primer on small scale energy conservation and PV, why the Dummies book, and what would be added to the body in such an addendum ?

Seems to me a lot of the OP's questions and confusion could be dealt with by a dive into his POCO's tariff structure and net metering and the form it takes, and also a better understanding of how his particular equipment works.

[gfsch]

That seems that even if your supplier doesnt do net metering and you are not compensated for the energy you export you still will be better off leaving the solar system on and self consuming at least some of it as it will reduce the amount of power you need to buy during the day time and you will get full credit for the distribution portion.

Actually no. In December 2020 I generated 6% of my usage with solar and bought 94% at the higher net metering rate. If I had purchased 100% of my power at the lower conventional rate, I would have saved money. I will check Monday if the PPL "price to compare" includes net metering. The PPL price to compare rate will minimize my extra "out of Pocket" costs but I still would have paid more. Obviously, as my % of solar gets higher (in the higher generation/lower use months) I will go positive. But in December, January and February, I will pay more if I leave the panels produce.

[hayhayday]

If your supplier does not offer compensation, then PPL will credit you for the distribution portion of the excess kilowatt-hours each month. Your supplier will bill you for their regular charges for your usage. You will not receive a payment for the kWh you returned to the grid.

That seems that even if your supplier doesnt do net metering and you are not compensated for the energy you export you still will be better off leaving the solar system on and self consuming at least some of it as it will reduce the amount of power you need to buy during the day time and you will get full credit for the distribution portion.

[gfsch]

[QUOTE=ajzwilli;n422352]Is your energy supplier PPL as well or have you selected a different supplier? [QUOTE]

Back in June, my supply contract was terminated because I contracted with a supplier that did not offer Net Metering. I then went through PPL. PPL has two plans; the "price to compare" plan which is $.073/kwh and a second plan which is a 7% discount off the .073 rate or .068/kw. My guess is PPL subcontracts the lower rate and the subcontractor was YEP. I took the 7% discount, but I made it clear to both the PPL rep and the YEP rep that I needed net metering. I don't think either rep understood what I was talking about. In December YEP terminated my contract because I needed net metering. I am sure I could have fought it since I was recorded for "quality assurance and training purposes", but I knew I was losing money in the winter months and decided to mothball the panels.

After I was terminated I went to the PUC website and the only supplier for my area with Net Metering has a rate of $.093. I went with Frontier Energy which has a teaser rate of $.045/kwh and mothballed the panels. Based on the post you sent me to, it looks like had I gone with PPL "price to compare" I would have had net metering at $.073/kwh.

So right now, I have the $.045 rate and will keep the panels off for the 3 month contract term. I am going to look at The Envoy S metered device for use after March. The other options ( replace my heat pump, battery backup, and going 100% solar) are just too expensive.

I am really grateful for all the help you guys provided.

thanks
Greg

[SunEagle]

Is it just me or do others think the book "Solar Power for Dummies" needs an addendum.......or maybe an entire new chapter.

I think there are newer revisions for that book which should keep the ready more current with the technology.

[DanS26]

Is it just me or do others think the book "Solar Power for Dummies" needs an addendum.......or maybe an entire new chapter.

[J.P.M.]

My zip is 18088 and my utility is PPL Utilities PPL Electric Utilities

OK. PVWatts seems to model Dec. output for a 3.57 kW south facing array with something like a 30 deg. tilt array in zip 18088 at ~ 250 kWh and a modeled yearly output at ~ 5,000 kWh. Given that PVWatts doesn't do a very good job accounting for shade, including snow cover, I've got no problem believing your 178 kWh for Dec. or your 4,500 kWh annual production, especially in the NE corridor of PA.

[ajzwilli]

Is your energy supplier PPL as well or have you selected a different supplier?
Have you reviewed this site on PPL?

[DanS26]

My zip is 18088 and my utility is PPL Utilities PPL Electric Utilities

OK it appears to be a net metering process using a banking system paid once a year but only if the OP buys power from PPL.

There appears to be a third party involved here. OP can you confirm? Is power being purchased from a energy supplier then delivered thru PPL distribution system?

[gfsch]

Please provide your POCO name and website. I'd like to read their energy contracts. What you describe is NOT "net metering" but a very common type of contract in the Midwest called "net billing".

I think a lot of confusion can be cleared up once we see the actual contract. Then a proper analysis can be performed.

My zip is 18088 and my utility is PPL Utilities PPL Electric Utilities

[J.P.M.]

My output for December and annually:


Year December (kwh) Annual Mwh
2014 140 Partial year
2015 148 4.4
2016 160 4.53
2017 101 4
2018 146 3.62
2019 144 3.8
2020 120 4.19

The panels are roof mounted and I don't clean the snow from them. Sorry, I can't get the table to format correctly

What's your zip ?

[DanS26]

Please provide your POCO name and website. I'd like to read their energy contracts. What you describe is NOT "net metering" but a very common type of contract in the Midwest called "net billing".

I think a lot of confusion can be cleared up once we see the actual contract. Then a proper analysis can be performed.