Help needed! - SunPower, LG, or Panasonic?!?

[scrambler]

You can definitely have individual panel monitoring with a string inverter with something like the Tigo TS4. You can get them configured for monitoring and rapid shutdown only, or also with optimization if you have shade issue.

That will give you individual panel monitoring, and you can download the production data. I read a post recently from someone who had Enphase installed, and they did not give him the individual panel monitoring, arguing it was causing homeowner to report non issues like leaves or dirt on panels.

So if you do get Enphase, make sure that by contract they will give you access to the Individual panel monitoring, and check if they allow data download...

[thebfamily]

So I only have a sample size of 1, but I recently pulled the trigger on 38x the same Panasonic panels. Been running for just over 3 months and very happy with production so far.

I can't compare the warranty or the failure rates, because I don't have the data. I also don't have a crystal ball, so I can't tell you what the future holds, but I will say that if your installer is part of Panasonic's installer program and you go with the integrated Enphase IQ7x micros, the warranty on the panels, micros, and labor is extended by Panasonic to 25 years. We'll see how that plays out, but I read through the warranty that I got from Panasonic after the install and it looks legit.

Spektre - Thanks for the feedback. That's very helpful. If you don't mind me asking, what caused you to chose Panasonic over the other brands?

[thebfamily]

Thebfamily:

Before you commit to anything, you need more information and an education. Anything you do after that will be more fit for purpose and probably more cost effective. Don't get stampeded.

Download a slightly dated but still useful version of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", or buy a newer version at bookstores/Amazon for ~ $25 or so.
Then, downlad and run something called PVWatts. It's a pretty friendly PV model from NREL. Read all the help/info screens a few times, get the inputs close, use a 10 % system lose parameter instead of the 14 % default and do a few runs. Size the system for whatever annual electrical load offset you nthink you want. Use the book for any questions that running the model raises.
Fill in the blanks with more questions here.

Before all that, and one of the factoids vendors might leave out, keep in mind and know that your winter production, which will be crappy under the best of conditions, will be further hampered by snow, and because of snow (I appreciate your climate - I grew up in central NY and later lived in zip 14221 for ~ 25 yrs.), it's probably more important to keep as much stuff off the roof (micros/optimizers ) as possible - more so in Webster/etc. than most other places.

If you can, do a ground mount if you can make it cost effective.

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

Thanks, JPM! Good advice. I'll see if I can grab a copy of the Solar Power Dummies book.

[thebfamily]

You can definitely have individual panel monitoring with a string inverter with something like the Tigo TS4. You can get them configured for monitoring and rapid shutdown only, or also with optimization if you have shade issue.

That will give you individual panel monitoring, and you can download the production data. I read a post recently from someone who had Enphase installed, and they did not give him the individual panel monitoring, arguing it was causing homeowner to report non issues like leaves or dirt on panels.

So if you do get Enphase, make sure that by contract they will give you access to the Individual panel monitoring, and check if they allow data download...

Thanks! I didn't know a subscription was needed. Is that something I'd negotiate with Enphase or with the installer?

[J.P.M.]

So I only have a sample size of 1, but I recently pulled the trigger on 38x the same Panasonic panels. Been running for just over 3 months and very happy with production so far.

I can't compare the warranty or the failure rates, because I don't have the data. I also don't have a crystal ball, so I can't tell you what the future holds, but I will say that if your installer is part of Panasonic's installer program and you go with the integrated Enphase IQ7x micros, the warranty on the panels, micros, and labor is extended by Panasonic to 25 years. We'll see how that plays out, but I read through the warranty that I got from Panasonic after the install and it looks legit.

Panels are mostly a commodity these days. Beyond some basic quality level, the quality and failure rates are about the same, quite small and mostly not f(price). Panasonic, Sunpower and LG are all high end (and high(er) priced). Some folks (the smart money types ?) know that most decent panels are pretty much made the same ways with the same equipment, production and QC methods, pretty much regardless of price. Pay much more attention to the installer, their reputation and how long they've been in business. The panels will probably last as long as you own them. Try to ensure the vendor you pick has the highest probability of lasting as long.

[scrambler]

Thanks! I didn't know a subscription was needed. Is that something I'd negotiate with Enphase or with the installer?

I don't know if there is a subscription involved, just that some installers apparently can decide to deactivate the individual panel monitoring if they want to...
So I would make sure that in the contract you sign with them, it specifically mentions that you will be given access to individual panel monitoring.

[Spektre]

Spektre - Thanks for the feedback. That's very helpful. If you don't mind me asking, what caused you to chose Panasonic over the other brands?

I didn't specifically choose Panasonic, but I do believe they are good panels. IMHO they're in the top 3 of manufacturers who will absolutely still be in business into the far future.

Honestly, I had decided to put off solar for a while, as I had a strong desire to DIY it but don't have the time right now. I got a cold call from Sun Pro Solar here in Phoenix, and I found their offer to line up exactly with what I wanted to do at a very reasonable rate.

[thebfamily]

Panels are mostly a commodity these days. Beyond some basic quality level, the quality and failure rates are about the same, quite small and mostly not f(price). Panasonic, Sunpower and LG are all high end (and high(er) priced). Some folks (the smart money types ?) know that most decent panels are pretty much made the same ways with the same equipment, production and QC methods, pretty much regardless of price. Pay much more attention to the installer, their reputation and how long they've been in business. The panels will probably last as long as you own them. Try to ensure the vendor you pick has the highest probability of lasting as long.

Great advice again. I'm guessing you don't put much stock into the 25 year product warranty then? (since only a handful of manufacturers provide a warranty that long)

[Spektre]

I don't know if there is a subscription involved, just that some installers apparently can decide to deactivate the individual panel monitoring if they want to...
So I would make sure that in the contract you sign with them, it specifically mentions that you will be given access to individual panel monitoring.

When you log in to the Enphase Enlighten portal, you have access to all that data. I suppose it's possible the installer could provision it that way when they set it up, but I can't imagine why. It seems like this is more on the Enphase side than the installer side though.

[bob-n]

One thing you need to research is "netmetering". With netmetering, you use electricity from the grid at night and send electricity back to the grid in the day. They pay you for your excess and you pay them for your usage, minute by minute. Unfortunately, they don't pay you the same thing that you pay them. They claim tha the difference covers their "distribution costs" like installing and maintaining the wires. I'm not sure what the deal is in your area. T

With Enphase, you don't need a subscription or anything. The only risk is if Enphase goes out of business and doesn't keep their servers running. That's a minor risk, but not zero. You will still generate energy, but won't have access to their server for all of the history. If that happens, millions of people will be up in arms.

As to the preference for panels, in my opinion, they are all good choices. Based on limited statistical data, they will all be trouble free for most customers over >10 years. All makers buy cells on the open market and assemble them with good, tested technology. All of those makers have a high probability of being around >20 years and supporting you in the extremely rare event of a manufacturing defect. They won't cover you if your house gets hit by lightning and burns down. So just buy good panels from a good vendor. Don't sweat the brand name.

As to electronics on the roof putting them at risk to the elements, know that the electronics are engineered for that use. Again, Enphase has millions of installations with electronics in the sun or under snow and good lifetime statistics. That shouldn't scare you away from them.

With all of that as background, my opinion is that they are all good choices. Your most important criterion should be the dependability of the installer. After that, your second criterion should be simply kWh/$.

[J.P.M.]

Great advice again. I'm guessing you don't put much stock into the 25 year product warranty then? (since only a handful of manufacturers provide a warranty that long)

How (or not) great is a matter of some opinion. Take all advice, including mine, with a kernel of skepticism

Warranties and particularly production (panel output) warranties are there mostly as marketing tools.

Example: There are about 1,700 panels in my HOA on about 130+ or so arrays. In the last 13 yrs., I believe there were 2 failures. They were both infant mortality and BTW, Sunpower panels - what's thought to be, or at least were thought to be at one time, the gold standard of panels.

Panels are a commodity and they don't fail much. Spend more time and investigative effort on vendor selection than panels. Doing so will, IMO only, result in a greater probability of a longer lasting, more fit for purpose PV system.

Get the book.

[thebfamily]

How (or not) great is a matter of some opinion. Take all advice, including mine, with a kernel of skepticism

Warranties and particularly production (panel output) warranties are there mostly as marketing tools.

Example: There are about 1,700 panels in my HOA on about 130+ or so arrays. In the last 13 yrs., I believe there were 2 failures. They were both infant mortality and BTW, Sunpower panels - what's thought to be, or at least were thought to be at one time, the gold standard of panels.

Panels are a commodity and they don't fail much. Spend more time and investigative effort on vendor selection than panels. Doing so will, IMO only, result in a greater probability of a longer lasting, more fit for purpose PV system.

Get the book.

Thanks, JPM. I appreciate your input.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks, JPM. I appreciate your input.

You're welcome. Take it FWIW.

I see it stopped snowing in your area a couple of days ago.

[thebfamily]

You're welcome. Take it FWIW.

I see it stopped snowing in your area a couple of days ago.

Haha it's supposed to snow again tomorrow. Typical upstate NY weather!

[thebfamily]

Sorry - one more question. I've been quoted for different levels of power. I'm not sure what I need. As a refresher, I average about 730 kWh/month (or 8760 kWh/year). I know the power I *actually* produce depends on a million different factors. But, if I want 100% offset, how many watts should my panels total?