Trouble interpreting enphase energy graphs

[ghulley]

Update: Enphase specialist said that consumption mirroring production is a sign of CT's installed incorrectly. Now if I can only convince my contractor of that, and to fix the problem...

[ghulley]

You can tell him if you want to. It will not affect the totals and he is probably not looking at it every half hour. That is a BS response from your Contractor because it doesn't sound like he even looked at your graphs. Maybe he doesn't have to shelter in place like many of us.
If the Envoy reset doesn't work tell him to check his CT placement. Has he been paid fully?

Haha..makes you wonder. Well he just replied that "the CT's can only be placed in one place otherwise they don't read correctly and you get a negative reading. They are installed where and how enphase tells me to. Since 1 am today you consumed 17.94 kWh and since solar was producing you you produced 16.35 kWh as of noon today, and you didn't pull anything from the grid".

But just exporting the data from the envoy and doing a quick plot in excel proves he is wrong. While demand was low I don't see any change in data being imported from night into day when solar started producing (see attached 04/27). Plotting yesterdays data when I was present and using more power (oven, some lights etc), you can see I still import from the grid, even though it appears the solar should be meeting that demand, i.e. blue curve greater than yellow (attached 04/26).

Yes he is paid in full since it was turned on. I'm considering changing to another company but not sure if I can do that with warranties etc. Its frustrating because I'm a scientist (NASA) and so believe in data-driven outcomes and results, so when someone tells me something that totally contradicts the data sitting RIGHT IN FRONT of me I get very frustrated.

[Ampster]

Okay I'll try that, but should I let the contractor know first since they are monitoring on their side as well? Btw I got a response from him, and said the solar produces during the day to meet the current demand, and that the only time you would import from the grid is at night or during an overcast day. That is clearly not what the Envoy is displaying so I'm not sure what to believe at the moment. Except as you said the CT placement is possibly incorrect.

You can tell him if you want to. It will not affect the totals and he is probably not looking at it every half hour. That is a BS response from your Contractor because it doesn't sound like he even looked at your graphs. Maybe he doesn't have to shelter in place like many of us.
If the Envoy reset doesn't work tell him to check his CT placement. Has he been paid fully?

[ghulley]

No worries I am just making sure I understand. Your examples help. It looks like if no consumption changed significantly between those data points, it could be CT placement which is counting production as consumption. Also to confirm that the configuration actually changed internally to what the screen shows, try rebooting the Envoy by pushing the button or cycling the Envoy breaker. It might take some time for any results to upload to the cloud but that might be easier to do than opening up the panel to photo the CTs if it does corrects the problem. I have a vague recollection of that being necessary when setting up my system.

Okay I'll try that, but should I let the contractor know first since they are monitoring on their side as well? Btw I got a response from him, and said the solar produces during the day to meet the current demand, and that the only time you would import from the grid is at night or during an overcast day. That is clearly not what the Envoy is displaying so I'm not sure what to believe at the moment. Except as you said the CT placement is possibly incorrect.

[Ampster]

I can take a pic of the panel this weekend again when I'm back if that helps.

When I scroll through the energy graph bars on the app (reported every 15min) it shows power produced/consumed/imported and also energy equivalent in kWh. Sorry I've been quoting the power numbers in 15min increments.

For example, today from 5:45-6 am:
Power consumed: 0.22 kW (0.05 kWh)
Power imported: 0.22 kW (0.05 kWh)

from 9:45-10am:
Power consumed: 3.54 kW
Power imported: 0.17 kW
Power produced: 3.37 kW

So with barely anything running at the home at present (probably fridge and maybe an outdoor light here and there), why is it still showing that I am importing power (energy) when I am producing enough to meet the demand (~0.15-0.25 kW).

No worries I am just making sure I understand. Your examples help. It looks like if no consumption changed significantly between those data points, it could be CT placement which is counting production as consumption. Also to confirm that the configuration actually changed internally to what the screen shows, try rebooting the Envoy by pushing the button or cycling the Envoy breaker. It might take some time for any results to upload to the cloud but that might be easier to do than opening up the panel to photo the CTs if it does corrects the problem. I have a vague recollection of that being necessary when setting up my system.

[ghulley]

That would also help diagnose the placement of the CTs since turning off the solar breaker should eliminate the blue bars on the graph. Then one could also compare the Enphase consumption meter to the house meter to see if they correlate.

Good idea. I will try that this weekend.

[ghulley]

That is a picture of how your Envoy is configured. A picture of your panel and the placement of your CTs might be more helpful for me to help answer your questions. There is also the possibility that your CTs are reversed but your graph looks like mine with blue above the line and orange below.

Any net energy that is coming from the grid can be verified by looking at the meter on your house. The issue of your consumption mirroring is separate and does not affect what is actually happening.

I am not sure what you mean when you say you are importing power. Usually energy entering or leaving our meters is measured in kWhs (kilo Watt hours) as you can observe from your previous bills. Do you know the difference between kW of instantaneous power and kWh of Energy production? The original graph you posted was showing kWhs but you keep referring to kWs. I am just seeking clarification in an effort to try to help.

One way to try to get a validation of the numbers is to look at the utility meter on your home. Most of them today record energy purchased (imported) and energy sold (exported) over time or a net number. My meter worked that way even before my power company enabled the accounting to give me credit.

I can take a pic of the panel this weekend again when I'm back if that helps.

When I scroll through the energy graph bars on the app (reported every 15min) it shows power produced/consumed/imported and also energy equivalent in kWh. Sorry I've been quoting the power numbers in 15min increments.

For example, today from 5:45-6 am:
Power consumed: 0.22 kW (0.05 kWh)
Power imported: 0.22 kW (0.05 kWh)

from 9:45-10am:
Power consumed: 3.54 kW
Power imported: 0.17 kW
Power produced: 3.37 kW

So with barely anything running at the home at present (probably fridge and maybe an outdoor light here and there), why is it still showing that I am importing power (energy) when I am producing enough to meet the demand (~0.15-0.25 kW).

[Ampster]

Have you tried to turn off the pv system and then see what you are consuming from the grid? You might be surprised that you are using more power then you have estimated you would.

That would also help diagnose the placement of the CTs since turning off the solar breaker should eliminate the blue bars on the graph. Then one could also compare the Enphase consumption meter to the house meter to see if they correlate.

[SunEagle]

See attached the location of my consumption CT. So are you saying that all energy produced is simply going back into the grid (without credit currently), which is why the consumption is mirroring the production. I'm still confused as to why I'm still importing power from the grid during the day when the system should easily be covering that. e.g. my peak production at noon was ~4.6 kW and yet I was still consuming around 8.2 kW which is way high.

Have you tried to turn off the pv system and then see what you are consuming from the grid? You might be surprised that you are using more power then you have estimated you would.

[Ampster]

See attached the location of my consumption CT.

That is a picture of how your Envoy is configured. A picture of your panel and the placement of your CTs might be more helpful for me to help answer your questions. There is also the possibility that your CTs are reversed but your graph looks like mine with blue above the line and orange below.

So are you saying that all energy produced is simply going back into the grid (without credit currently), which is why the consumption is mirroring the production.

Any net energy that is coming from the grid can be verified by looking at the meter on your house. The issue of your consumption mirroring is separate and does not affect what is actually happening.

I'm still confused as to why I'm still importing power from the grid during the day when the system should easily be covering that. e.g. my peak production at noon was ~4.6 kW and yet I was still consuming around 8.2 kW which is way high.

I am not sure what you mean when you say you are importing power. Usually energy entering or leaving our meters is measured in kWhs (kilo Watt hours) as you can observe from your previous bills. Do you know the difference between kW of instantaneous power and kWh of Energy production? The original graph you posted was showing kWhs but you keep referring to kWs. I am just seeking clarification in an effort to try to help.

One way to try to get a validation of the numbers is to look at the utility meter on your home. Most of them today record energy purchased (imported) and energy sold (exported) over time or a net number. My meter worked that way even before my power company enabled the accounting to give me credit.

[ghulley]

See attached the location of my consumption CT. So are you saying that all energy produced is simply going back into the grid (without credit currently), which is why the consumption is mirroring the production. I'm still confused as to why I'm still importing power from the grid during the day when the system should easily be covering that. e.g. my peak production at noon was ~4.6 kW and yet I was still consuming around 8.2 kW which is way high.

[Ampster]

Thanks for the response. I should’ve mentioned the system is currently set to net zero export until Big Bear Electric starts their net exporting again this summer. Do you think this could be the reason the consumption mirrors the production. To me the data looks like none of the energy produced is being used.

I am not aware of a setting for zero export with Enphase. Your inverters may be ex porting but you are not receiving credit. My hybrid inverter has that setting but I do not see that setting on my Envoy. The only way to turn off export on my microinverters is to turn of that circuit breaker. What you may be referring to is the consumption meter setting.
Go to Enlighten Manager on th web version, click on Devices tab and click on Enphase Integrated Consumption Meter. Notice how the CT is placed in that diagram. It could be your CT placement or which of those boxes you selected that is causing the mirroring.

If your solar goes into the same panel as your loads you should select the left box, Load with Solar production. That assumes the consumption CTs are around the big wires that feed that panel and the production CT is around one of the wires from the circuit breaker to the micro inverters. The software does the math to separate consumption from solar.

The only way you would need to select the box on the right labeled, Load Only, is if your loads are separated, either in a separate panel or if in the same panel by running every non solar circuit through the correct phase CT. If that box is selected and your CTs are connected as explained in the earlier paragraph then your consumption most likely would look like it mirrored production.

Let us know what you find out and/or post a picture of your panel(s) showing the CTs.

[Mike90250]

Thanks for the response. I should’ve mentioned the system is currently set to net zero export until Big Bear Electric starts their net exporting again this summer. Do you think this could be the reason the consumption mirrors the production. To me the data looks like none of the energy produced is being used.

You cannot produce energy, without it going somewhere. Either it gets consumed at home, or exported.

[ghulley]

Thanks for the response. I should’ve mentioned the system is currently set to net zero export until Big Bear Electric starts their net exporting again this summer. Do you think this could be the reason the consumption mirrors the production. To me the data looks like none of the energy produced is being used.

[Ampster]

Those bars are 15 or 20 minute intervals. They are measuring kWhs not kW. If you go to a web version you will be able to toggle between views of Energy (kWh) and Power (kW). Overall you produce 20.83 kWhs and consumed a total of 40.74. Add your production and net import to get to that total. Note the 0.01kWh rounding difference in the total.

Something does look odd that your production does seem to mirror your consumption. Do you have the CTs installed correctly and configured for net? Last month I installed my Envoy and I remember something about having to restart the Envoy to correctly enabble the consumption CTs.