Question about my utility meter? Bidirectional?

[Markyrocks69]

Ok so I've been getting on the interconnection department at my poco bc they really been dragging their feet getting my system approved ect. So long story short my bugging got them to give me final approval hurray!! Finally. Gawd.

So here's where my question comes into play. The attached picture shows part of the message they sent me.... Like I have no words but grrrr.

I looked at my meter b4 and it's all digital. From what I gather all meters in the state are all smart meters. But that message says that they dont know if my meter can run backwards or I may not get credit for generation until a new meter is installed. I'm literally ready to pull my hair out. According to their website each and every customer by law is at the bare minimum required to have a smart meter and the rollout of this has been completed. So it should be a no brainer that at bare minimum that is the meter I have which should be the baseline for any information passed.

As far as I know every smartmeter has the capability of rolling backwards. It maybe possible that they need a different firmware or something to operate that way. My money is on this just being another delay tactic. They said I could turn the system on but they may not credit any excess generation I'd just be solely offsetting my usage when sun is out at or I could even be charged for the production. I'm obviously going to call them tomorrow but this level of shadiness is just insane. I'd also understand if they didn't ask me any information about my meter but they only make you put your meter # on the application like 18 times so if they're not going to use that information then why are they even bothering to ask ? I honestly feel like this final process took close to 40 days technically longer and they probably glanced athe the paperwork for less than 10 minutes and sent a generic email approval response. Just ridiculous, but yet everyone pushing for zero emissions ect but you're treated like an annoyance during the whole process. Any information would be great thanks

[peakbagger]

Most (but not all) bidirectional meters have two reporting channels and usual some indication like an arrow or row of dots that show which way the power is going. With the solar off, turn on a big electric load and observe the meter. Its probably increasing its KW reading and the arrow or dots is moving in one direction. Now turn off the loads in the house (but not the main breaker) and turn on the solar on a sunny day. Yous should either see a second channel start reporting another KW reading near zero that increases with the arrows or the dots moving in the opposite direction or the original reading decreases. If you see the original reading increase with solar on then its likely your meter has a "ratchet" that treats any generation going to grid as power coming back from the grid which means you are paying to send power to the grid.

Note in the case where you have two readouts, the billing department may need to make a software change to track and credit your production. The other thing may happen is their fraud department may come check to see why your power usage dropped substantially. It usually takes a couple of billing cycles for the fraud group to react.

I agree its shady tactic a bureaucracy in action.

[Markyrocks69]

I agree that all that seems logical but I have to work the next couple days and really dont have time to play around with it. Besides that its pretty lame that I should even have to bother. Again every meter is supposed to be the same. Idk how it could need to "rachet" when it's a digital meter.

[Ampster]

In California I had a smart meter but PG&E had to toggle something in the software for them to track my production, I ran the solar before then, charging my cars, heating water and running the AC to to point that I was at zero consumption at any point in time. It was a pain but at least I didn't have to pay for xonsumption that was offset b y my production until they toggled the software.

[Markyrocks69]

In California I had a smart meter but PG&E had to toggle something in the software for them to track my production, I ran the solar before then, charging my cars, heating water and running the AC to to point that I was at zero consumption at any point in time. It was a pain but at least I didn't have to pay for xonsumption that was offset b y my production until they toggled the software.

That sounds like my situation. I guess anything is better than nothing, they just love this game, anything to suck another partial bill or so out of me.

[Ampster]

That sounds like my situation. I guess anything is better than nothing, they just love this game, anything to suck another partial bill or so out of me.

I waited almost a year after the solar was installed because PG&E screwed around with the scheduling of a main panel upgfrade. I now have a $300 NEM credit so they are paying now.

[NewBostonConst]

What state are you in?

The meters can be installed upside down so they are programmed so that any energy flowing through them is billable energy....in the old days of mechanical meters people could turn them upside down to get the meter to go backward and lessen their bill....(they would flip it at night)

I live in Michigan and the state setup tight time tables for the different steps of the interconnect process that the power company has to adhere to. It keeps things rolling. Look into your states Public Service Commission net metering agreement timeline.

[Markyrocks69]

What state are you in?

The meters can be installed upside down so they are programmed so that any energy flowing through them is billable energy....in the old days of mechanical meters people could turn them upside down to get the meter to go backward and lessen their bill....(they would flip it at night)

I live in Michigan and the state setup tight time tables for the different steps of the interconnect process that the power company has to adhere to. It keeps things rolling. Look into your states Public Service Commission net metering agreement timeline.

Wouldn't flipping it upside down confuse it into thing all electricity was headed back to the poco? I live in PA. The time tables cover everything except the length of time for the new meter to be installed. At least as far as I can tell. There is also tight time tables here but again they play games. I emailed them documents and faxed them on a specific date and as a backup I mailed them a week later to make sure they were received and ofcourse they pretended like they never got the email or fax. I'm like I understand theres limitations on the email system but nothing except a broken fax machine should have stopped the fax... and if your fax machine is broken that dont have a thing to do with me. But ofcourse the later date was the date they went by even though I had proof of the previous correspondence.

But I just flipped everything on, the arrow started flowing in the opposite direction, I took a picture of the reading. I guess I'll know what is happening this evening depending on the usage. If it's like more than 30kwh I'm being billed for production, if its next to nothing then I'm not and just offsetting usage, if the number is less than now then its going backwards, which would be great.

[Salts]

I have a digital meter as well. Without modification by the utility, the meter would count power coming in and going out, and register both as power coming in on the bill. When the utility showed up, he plugged a (USB?) cable into it, spent 2 minutes on the laptop, and it was read to net-meter correctly.

[Markyrocks69]

I have a digital meter as well. Without modification by the utility, the meter would count power coming in and going out, and register both as power coming in on the bill. When the utility showed up, he plugged a (USB?) cable into it, spent 2 minutes on the laptop, and it was read to net-meter correctly.

Good to know. I'm trying to get ahold of someone to at least make sure that whatever changes need to made have been scheduled.

I just had my wife check the meter and take a picture of it. The solar has been on for a few hours. The numbers have stayed the same so I'm assuming that I'm just using what I produce at this point. Hopefully not being billed for it.

[Salts]

After our system was ready, it took the utility company two weeks to get out here. I called them every three days to get an appointment but never had any luck. My local township inspector came out to do a final inspection and the utility company just "coincidentally" showed up at the same time. Pretty sure they are in cahoots with each other.

[neweclipse]

No, you get billed for what surplus production you sent to grid...not production used.

That's a 2:1 LOSS for you!
Donate YOUR... production to POCO and they bill you like they sent it to YOU Double Whammy

[Markyrocks69]

No, you get billed for what surplus production you sent to grid...not production used.

That's a 2:1 LOSS for you!
Donate YOUR... production to POCO and they bill you like they sent it to YOU Double Whammy

Ya no doubt but for them to bill me for production I'm sending to the grid the numbers on the meter would be going up. In the past few hours they haven't changed. I do have a smart meter and it shows it being sent out. I'm not going to get credit for that but I shouldn't be billed for it if it's not registering as usage. Apparently I can view stats about the meter online so I'll check it out tonight and see what is happening.

Edit. But ya I'd rather donate my productio and have it offset my usage during the day than leave the system off and get zero benefit. I'm obviously aware of the potential negative consequences of this situation.

[neweclipse]

A 'normal' customer smart-meter would not run backward...maybe the man with laptop actually showed up then.

[Markyrocks69]

A 'normal' customer smart-meter would not run backward...maybe the man with laptop actually showed up then.

It's not running backwards it's just not doing anything. Just standing still. The arrow is pointing in the other direction but the numbers arnt moving