Earth4Energy, Citizenre, and other Misleading Solar Energy Scam Info

[Panther]

i was wondering about that clame from earth4energy .

build your own solar panels .

i never bought the book or any thing like that. i thought it was a bunch of bull.

[Danbob]

Thanks Jason, for posting my review of Earth4Energy and its ebook ilk.

I would like to re-iterate my main point -- the scam part of this whole thing is simply how the ebook is advertised. By saying 'can produce 80% of your home's electricity needs' and 'the power company will pay you' a grid-tied system is implied -- and no mention is made in the ads of the +/- $5k of grid tie equipment, permits, inspections, etc. needed for this. And, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, one PV panel and a tiny toy wind turbine are not going to cover even 10% of your home energy needs, unless (possibly) you live in Southern Zambia.

The local building inspector / electrical inspector is not likely going to allow home-built PV panels on your roof, and they will be required to come in and inspect before you can tie to the grid. I would challenge anyone reading this to send me a photostat of an approved rooftop installation of homemade PV panels, signed off by the inspector.

On the other hand, PV mounted in racks in the yard and small homebrew wind turbines on towers in the yard have been successfully permitted for grid tie -- but what's the use when your tiny turbine (as described in the ebook) or homemade PV panel can only make less than 20 kwh per month? That's $2 worth of electricity.

If the ad copy for these ebooks said you could power your remote cabin or hunting camp with them -- well, that's the information included. No scam there, other than that you can get all of it *for free* on the internet.

I consider Earth4Energy a 'bait and switch.' You only find out about grid tie after you buy the book. In fact they refunded my money when I complained about that.

DAN FINK
co-author, "Homebrew Wind Power" ISBN 978-0-9819201-0-8
contributing author, Back Home Magazine, Home Power Magazine, The Energy Self Sufficiency Newsletter, Lighting Today, and more.
"Ask the Experts" columnist, Home Power Magazine
Technical Director, http://www.otherpower.com/
Owner, Buckville Publications LLC http://www.buckville.com/

[sunnysun]

thanks for all of this great info. hopefully more people find this topic before buying Earth4Energy

i found a few Earth4Energy ripoff reports also.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Internet/Earth4energy-com/earth4energy-com-wildly-overex-b94q8.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Utility-Companies/earth4energy-com-Swe/earth4energy-com-swerd-ea-w742w.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Bait-and-Switch/Earth4Energy-Or-Swer/earth4energy-com-earth4energy-27cj2.htm

[Jason]

Here is a response from a solar professional regarding Earth4Energy:

"Now someone is getting rich, thanks to an affiliate program-- the Earth4Energy Ebook sells for $49.95, there's a DVD too, and has the same misinformation as the old book, updated with color photos and plans for an impossible wind turbine (8 foot PVC blades, small tape drive motor, no furling system, 1000 watts @ 20mph -- yeah, right). This Ebook (85 pages, large type, lots of white space) sells online under dozens of different names now. They all review each other, with glowing reports about how the utility pays THEM and how YOU can do all this too for only $200 in materials! What's scary and dangerous is that the ads all imply grid tie applications for this homebrew stuff:

"Don't pay for your electricity any longer...
Instead, the power company will pay YOU!"

But in the site FAQs:
"Will I learn how to wire the renewable power into my homes AC breaker panel?" "Wiring your own power into the AC breaker panel is very dangerous and is illegal unless it is done by a qualified electrician."

And then from the Earth4Energy Ebook:
"If you do not wish to go as far as connecting your system to
the breaker panel you can simply run your appliances
straight from your AC inverter. Running your appliances
straight from the inverter is easy and a very cheap option."

I assume this means the homeowner is to run extension cords around the house to each appliance? Oh my. I am currently working with other DIY renewable energy authors to get some real reviews up about Earth4Energy and all its affiliates.

They are selling tens of thousands of copies of this crap. The average person that buys these $49.95 Ebooks has NO clue about how any RE system, wind or PV, off grid or on, works. The websites cleverly do not mention that the $200 you spend for building your own plywood PV panels and toy wind turbines doesn't include a grid tie inverter, balance of system components, and signoff by a licensed installer or electrician...and at least where *I* live, the county inspector would go ballistic if he saw PV cells glued to plywood.

As someone who tries to encourage DIY RE, this whole thing is mortifying. It gives the entire RE industry a bad name (not just the DIY folks) because the implication is that professional RE installers are ripping the customer off with $1000 PV modules, when the customer could just build their own. We have a nice list of installations where folks that built our DIY wind turbines (a modified Hugh Piggott design) from our book "Homebrew Wind Power" (ISBN 978-0-9819201-0-8) have been successfully permitted and signed off on by the inspectors for both off-grid and islanding grid-tie. That's another reason this Earth4Energy Ebook thing infuriates me....the wind turbine information in there is both impossible in claimed power output and dangerous in application."

From Dan Fink @ http://www.otherpower.com/

[ElGhosto]

Gulp, I just bought one and this is how I got to this site. I guess it was worth the $50.00 to get the expertise from you folks. I figured you couldn't do what I would like to do for a couple of hundred dollars, but I didn't know where to start. Thank you for shedding the light on these guys.

[russ]

We appreciate

Hi Jason, We all appreciate the efforts you, Mike and Aussie Bob put into this site. I have a small understanding of how many posts you must eliminate from what I do on another site.

Thank you for a job well done and please keep it up.

[Jason]

My apologies for the misunderstanding Phil. I wasn't referring to you personally as being deceiving, I was referring to the ebooks.

[philpaine]

Hi Jason

Thanks for the considerate reply, I appreciate what you say and taking the trouble write it. I fully support your aims. Having actively participated in the FX and Affiliate market place, I am still amazed at the scams and outright dishonesty of many participants.

I hope to remain an active member of this forum and as requested I won't include my website link on future posts.

I know this can sound glib, but Integrity and Honesty really do matter to me. I am trying to build a website which is honest, objective, interesting and informative about solar and other forms of renewable energy. At the same time I need affiliate links in order to earn a living.

I do not disagree with your criticisms of E4E etc. That is why I have recently changed my website to point out the falsehood of their claims and actually tell my readers not to buy these guides / kits unless they just want to construct a couple of solar panels as an interesting project. I also point out that they can buy solar panels for almost the same cost as DIY. I am trusting that this honest approach will not be commercial suicide!

I will continue adding more articles on renewable energy. I very much hope that in time my site will be one that you include on your list of useful solar energy resource sites. It is certainly my intention to make it one of the best sources of renewable energy information on the Internet.

In the meantime, I would value any comments / constructive criticism of the site. If there are areas where you believe I have compromised my tagline, please let me know. Just use the "Contact us" button on the top right of the landing page.

Kindest regards

Phil

BTW - I didn't understand the last sentence of your 2nd para. I am not aware of deceiving anyone. Maybe you can use the "Contact us" button to explain. Phil

[Jason]

Hi Phil,

First I want to say thank you for asking permission to post your link and the way you went about the situation. I appreciate it.

To me your site is a classic example of someone who builds their website for the sole purpose of getting clicks to their affiliate program. The hyphenated keyword domain, the excessive affiliate link stuffing on every post etc. I see your point of view and think it's great you went above and beyond 99.9% of all the spammy affiliate blogs that are promoting this program. You seem to have a real interest in the subject and even though you went a unique route by purchasing the material and making it a review blog for these affiliate program, the first impression i get is "click me! click me!". As a buyer, how do I know you really did buy these? If they were that good, why deceit a potential buyer?

Here's my issue. I have to set the rules and make it fair to every member. If I start making exceptions, just because you went about the nice way of doing business, before you know it this site will be filled with spammy affiliate links. I delete them everyday and who knows how many Mike is deleting.

I'm trying to run a tight ship here and want to provide free, high quality information and discussions for people without bias opinions from posters who just want to squeeze in a link wherever they can. That's exactly what will happen if I start allowing people to post whatever link they want and the quality of this forum will be compromised.

Your tagline for your blog is "Integrity and Honesty in ALL Things Renewable Energy." Earth4Energy and these other sites aren't honest on all their landing pages you see across the net. I betcha those testimonials are fake too. They say what they can to make the sell. period.

What's wrong with the DIY solar links I posted in the first post? They are from people who thoroughly detailed their progress of making a solar panel and shared it as free information. It's a great start for people to learn from it and come here to discuss it with others who are doing the same thing. That's what this forum is about.

I'll leave your link here in the thread so people can see the reviews of the material before they buy, but as far as posting it on every post you make, that is unacceptable. I hope you understand and continue to post here. I'll make a clear set of rules when I get some time and make it a sticky post in the Welcome subforum.

Being a debatable topic, this could go on and on. I realize they provide an abundant amount of information, which is great, but they go the wrong way about promoting it and to me that's not honest. Even by your list above, the bad outweighs the good. Also, my strong opinion comes from the fact that I know you can get information about DIY solar for free, straight from people who have actually done it, and forums to offer the opportunity to discuss and learn further. Most likely people who buy these manuals will come here and do that anyway.

Thanks again for being a member, I greatly appreciate it.

[Mike90250]

i'll let Jason set his policys on this, it seems OK (but Busy with all the ad links in it)

[philpaine]

Hi Mike

My website: www.solar-panel-home.net

If you have comments/criticism please let me know. I have very recently update all my articles having read the posts on the forum.

Thanks

Phil

https://www.solar-panel-home.net

ps. rather than simply removing my postings, I would prefer that you tell me what the issues are so I can respond, thanks.

[Mike90250]

Mike

Is it OK for me to post details of my website?

Phil

Well, try it, and we'll see. Just a simple link. If it looks like a scam, we'll pull it. I cleaned a couple up this AM.

[philpaine]

I Promote Earth4Energy etc.

Mike

Is it OK for me to post details of my website?

Phil

[Mike90250]

Hi Jason

As I mentioned in my earlier post I have bought copies of 5 of these "how to" guides, using my own hard earned cash. I did this so I could review these guides objectively, post the review on my web site and hopefully earn some money through affiliate links.

Before immediately bringing out your flame thrower, please read the whole message - thanks.

That's pretty long winded. I just say the homebuilts are great for a learning/science project, and don't expect much more from them. You are not going to power your house with them.

[philpaine]

I Promote Earth4Energy etc.

Hi Jason

As I mentioned in my earlier post I have bought copies of 5 of these "how to" guides, using my own hard earned cash. I did this so I could review these guides objectively, post the review on my web site and hopefully earn some money through affiliate links.

Before immediately bringing out your flame thrower, please read the whole message - thanks.

My Conclusion

The Good:

1. The Best DO Deliver. Most of the guides / kits I have reviewed (I haven't yet found the right phrase, this is as good as I can come up with) have reasonably good manuals, but even with the best of the bunch you would struggle to make a solar panel based solely on the manuals.

The best products now include instructional videos that show you step by step what to do and how to do it. The best of these are really excellent and when looked at in conjunction with the manuals, they really do show you exactly what to do, how to do it and in what order to do it. I have spent weeks searching the Internet and I have not found anything that comes close to the top three of these guides. If you want to make a solar panel I strongly recommend "Harry", as a complete novice DIYer should be able to follow Harry's guide / kit and make a decent solar panel. You just need to practice your soldering!

2. The Best Include Educational Material. The leading guides / kits now include additional material on how to use Solar and Wind power on and off grid. The best product (Harry again), has 7 videos (these are really powerpoint presentations with audio) lasting a total of more than 3 hrs on the following subjects -
* Video #1: Introduction to Home Made Energy
* Video #2: System Components & Types
* Video #3: Special Report re Connecting to the Grid
* Video #4: Electrical Fundamentals to help insure a safe, successful PV project
* Video #5: PV System Design and Sizing
* Video #6: Tools Needed to Construct the System
* Video #7: Batteries