Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Newbie looking for suggestions before responding to solar quotes received

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by NJShore View Post
    UPDATE: Ive narrowed down to 3 installers - GPE & Sundial who I met with today and NJSolar who I'll meet with tomorrow.

    GPE quote was Upfront Net $26.1K , Panasonic
    VBHN330SA17 HIT & SolarEdge inverter. Before any meetings,
    had NJSolar & Sundial update quotes to also be Panasonic. NJSolar (which also included Solaredge) was Upront Net $22.6K and did included 4 less panels. Sundial had Ensage listed and their Panasonic panel quote was $25.9K.

    Although didnt disclose any pricing to anyone of course, still before meeting when GPE learned we'd be paying in full, they reduced quote & Upfront Net dropped by $2K.
    Then we met them 1st, they adjusted panels 39 to 36 and Upfront dropped to very close to NJSolar.

    Had high expectations for GPE from their reputation & phone conversation and I not only wasnt disappointed but was outright impressed. Sundial went well and going in was a distant 3rd but learning about micro vs string inverter (which I dont pretend to fully grasp) did sound much better. Seems lot of online divide opinions on string vs micro.

    Meeting with NJSolar in the morning who is no longer much different pricing wise with GPE pricing adjustments.

    I'm a little confused by the terms you're using. Over the years around here the general practice has evolved of talking about net prices from the vendor after all their smoke/mirrors/rebates/friends of the family B.S "discounts", and talking about system size in terms of the STC wattage rather than the # of panels to get a price per STC W from the vendor = (net to vendor)/( system STC W). We can then all divide by 0.7 (in the U.S.) or whatever after vendor adjustments are available to get the net price. Doing it that way tends to put everyone on the same page.

    Thank you.

    Comment


    • #47
      I will follow up further, only have a moment right now but wanted to address pricing- something I should have mentioned which could be significant.

      Boyfriend's sister across the street from us almost certainly will be doing solar as well and while companies have a flat referral fee, just feel likely they came in with best pricing to secure both contracts (they've not got any info on her yet but they can see the house so I'm guessing they can do some rough estimating on their own)

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by sunpoweredev View Post

        Looking at your EnergySage quote, $2.76/watt is a great deal. I'm also paying in full and could not get him to come down from $2.91/watt, although I was able to get them to drop the 3% credit card surchage so that was effectively ~$1000 off. I told them I was burned before with a contractor that after paying a 50% deposit they did half the job and disappeared, so I wasn't comfortable in paying 65% before anything is even started. Paying by credit card at least gave us a tiny bit of peace of mind, plus earning a good chunk of points

        How did you come to the $26.1K figure? 36 Panasonic panels x 330watt = 11880watts * $2.76 = $32789. After 30% federal tax credit is $22952.

        FYI, GPE payment schedule is 10% upon signing agreement, 55% when they have all permits granted and they start to order the equipment, then 25% the day they being physical installation, final 10% when you receive PTO. All but the initial 10% incur 3% surcharge if paid by credit card.

        Edit: curious, who was the salesman you met with at GPE?
        sunpoweredev
        > We were told about 3% credit card charge (boyfriends always up on CC and points/cashback) and didnt think to ask about waiving of fee.
        > Tony was our sales rep.
        > Shouldve
        clarified $26.1K
        was result of GPE's original quote minus 30% Fed Cred AND also when panel qty was 39, not current 36 . I believe on original higher quote, our current $2.76 watt price I believe then was $2.91.
        > Re: financing, I also previously was told (by a car salesman) they prefer financing over cash but definitely got reverse impression frm solar companies.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

          I meant to ask you about your payment terms, but now I see why your numbers were a good amount lower than mine since paying in full vs financing.

          GPE/Tim claimed he had dropped the upfront financing fee ($2k or so) but there is obviously something still built in there for them vs the number you guys got/are getting. My quote for the 330W Panasonic panels was at $3.30 p/w financed, dropped to $2.96 by going to the 325w Hanwaha's.

          At sunpowereddev's numbers my size (12.35kW) system would have been about $4800 less if I went with the Pano panels and paid cash/in full.

          At NJshore's numbers it would be almost $6700 less.... great prices for sure but I'm still happy to be moving forward and made the roof and all possible.

          NJShore You might want to take a hard look (or at least get the quote) at the Hanwha DUO-G5's I'm going with...if GPE pricing is close to consistent you could save about $3500 on the switch for a 36-panel 11.7kW system or add a panel or two and still be less than the Pano quote. The difference in output, probability of panel failure or usability of the "extended warranty" is nearly zero IMO and research, you'll be paying a premium for brand alone while the more important components (inverter/optimizers) all stay the same where the warranty DOES matter due to much much higher rate of failures.
          NJturtlePower Like I posted, I suspect that getting a 2nd job thru us had much to do with our pricing.I appreciate your point but we're pretty sold on the Panasonic although you bring up a good point re: inverters. The installer using enphase was emphatic about using micro vs string/ optimizer while the SolarEdge installer understandably just the opposite and in all my googling, I cant find any consensus.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

            I'm a little confused by the terms you're using. Over the years around here the general practice has evolved of talking about net prices from the vendor after all their smoke/mirrors/rebates/friends of the family B.S "discounts", and talking about system size in terms of the STC wattage rather than the # of panels to get a price per STC W from the vendor = (net to vendor)/( system STC W). We can then all divide by 0.7 (in the U.S.) or whatever after vendor adjustments are available to get the net price. Doing it that way tends to put everyone on the same page.

            Thank you.
            JPM, I understand your point but not specifically as in price per STC W and other certain language that's exchanged back and forth in threads . After so much rereading without success aside from memorizing a definition without really comprehending it, Ive accepted there is just terminology I cant grasp and that comes after sharing with few folks here who read but couldn't understand either. I genuinely appreciate your trying to help me though. That PVWatts page was a killer. Several times times was ready to quit entirely trying to understand all of this since I just kept rereading without it sinking in but ultimately decided to just stick with at least what I could understand and do best I can with decisions.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by NJShore View Post
              JPM, I understand your point but not specifically as in price per STC W and other certain language that's exchanged back and forth in threads . After so much rereading without success aside from memorizing a definition without really comprehending it, Ive accepted there is just terminology I cant grasp and that comes after sharing with few folks here who read but couldn't understand either. I genuinely appreciate your trying to help me though. That PVWatts page was a killer. Several times times was ready to quit entirely trying to understand all of this since I just kept rereading without it sinking in but ultimately decided to just stick with at least what I could understand and do best I can with decisions.
              Just my opinion here, but one reason folks get frustrated and think others are talking down to them is because they lack the basics and by way of analogy, want to be track stars before they learn to walk. That's not a moral or intellectual deficiency, but it takes a certain amount of knowledge and prior information about the basics of a subject before asking a technical question and then expecting to understand an intelligent and informed answer.

              I appreciate it's counterproductive and less than useless for me to write that PVWatts is a cakewalk written for the average homeowner when you may be tearing your hair out over it, but the key then is to stop when you see a term you do not understand, look it up, learn it's meaning by chewing it up, spitting it out and moving to the next term. in doing so, if you see another unknown term or concept, repeat the process. I know (from experience, believe me) it is a real PITA, but it does work. Nothing can replace persistence.

              If, after a lot of sincere effort at learning on your own you are still stumped, before you quit entirely, that's the time to ask a question. If nothing else, the question will be better formulated for the prior effort made, and the answers you find (probably on your own) will be better, more understandable and not soon forgotten.

              An aside: My first engineering boss had all the patience and all the time on this earth for subordinates' technical questions - except woe betide those who had not exhausted EVERY means at their disposal to find the answer on their own. Not to do so was called out as unprofessional and discourteous of others. They were unceremoniously thrown out of the boss's' and hounded until they found a solution to their question. A lot of engineers who worked for him learned a lot about self reliance and became better thinkers and better engineers along the way.

              To your comment about prices, I suspect the quasi-convention about using prices per STC (Standard Test Condition) from the vendor evolved from an effort to have some standardization about price and in so doing, hopefully avoid some confusion about what someone is paying for an PV system. Example: I paid $23,544 net to a vendor for a 5,232 STC W Sunpower array back in 2013 consisting of 16 ea., 327 STC W panels. That's $23,544/5,232 STC W = $4.50/STC W. I could have bought other panels and inverter for maybe $3.60-$3.75/STC W (and got about equal annual performance - but that's off topic and I knew what I was buying was not the most cost effective, but I had my reasons unrelated to cost (in)effectiveness ).

              The per watt price method is pretty straightforward, avoids (some) confusion and doesn't leave a lot of room for any smoke/mirrors/B.S. about what someone paid. How much did you pay for how big (the electrical size) of a system ? Consider tax credits and other price reductions after that, but everyone starts on the same page. It's also easier to compare other metrics like LCOE or other ways of doing solar process economics or life cycle costing methods.

              The more you learn about Solar PV, the better your system will potentially be. The more you learn on your own, the less you'll be able to be B.S.'d by peddlers and solar dreamers.

              Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

              Rant mode off

              Comment


              • #52
                To those looking to finance their solar install using a loan. You should consider a home equity loan to pay for you solar system. It may be a lower APR (since the collateral is your house) but more importantly, you get to deduct the interest you pay on that loan from your income taxes, similar to your primary mortgage.
                https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=59404

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by macaddict View Post
                  ........ you get to deduct the interest you pay on that loan from your income taxes, similar to your primary mortgage.
                  Maybe in the past, but the new rules changed the deductible ratios, and it may not work for your individual situation.

                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by macaddict View Post
                    To those looking to finance their solar install using a loan. You should consider a home equity loan to pay for you solar system. It may be a lower APR (since the collateral is your house) but more importantly, you get to deduct the interest you pay on that loan from your income taxes, similar to your primary mortgage.
                    I inquired about Home Equity Loan, and it wasn't even close... 7-8% if I remember where Sungage is 2.99-3.99% (5/10 year). A benefit of an external solar loan is also that there is no lien on the home mortgage...if you fell on hard times, lost job, divorce, etc. the solar system is your collateral and not your home.

                    As Mike90250 the extra write off would be useless anyway for most in NJ if your property taxes alone max the $10k limit.
                    Last edited by NJturtlePower; 06-25-2019, 10:43 AM.
                    12.35 kW - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

                      As Mike90250 the extra write off would be useless anyway for most in NJ if your property taxes alone max the $10k limit.
                      The $10k limit is for property taxes deduction, not for mortgage interest deduction .
                      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=59404

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        NJShore So where did you end up on this project?

                        Moving ahead on solar or still planning?

                        I still highly recommend GPE now that I'm in the final wait for PTO...any day now!
                        12.35 kW - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Hey NJturtlePower ! I just did a rough scan through your thread trying to timline your GPE experience / landmarks.

                          We met with GPE 06/20, two others afterwards and decided on GPE.
                          I still have notes handwritten by GPE rep of timeline to anticipate we asked about:
                          > 06/20 ---- start point if we were to sign that day
                          > 06/28 ---- approx. date we'd get Final Design to sign off on
                          > 18 days - minimum for JCPL approval
                          > 55 days - total estimated installation completion, which would been Aug 20th.Five days later we signed contract with GPE.

                          Signed with GPE ..BUT... process has taken dramatically longer.
                          > 06/25 We signed GPE contract
                          > 07/11 After no plan nor even any contact for 2.5 weeks, concerned, irritated, inquired on Design, told should be soon
                          > 07/17 We received/ signed off on the layout

                          At that point realized, suspected correctly rest of timeline was off also.
                          >.08/12 GPE wrote they'd submitted interconnection application (I believe the permit was also requested)
                          > 08/26 GPE wrote they'd all approvals & requested pmt to put us queue to schedule install / order materials.

                          That was two days ago & mailed requested check following day/ yesterday. Everyone has been friendly and helpful but their explained timeline vs reality - grrrrrr! Particularly after signing and not only no plan following week then not hearing from them again. Even with my allowing more time to hear from them, when 18 days since signing Ive heard nothing and pursuing them - just wrong. We weren't in a rush, granted, but had we gotten at least a semi-realistic timeline, I'd have more patience with delays vs us given a far-of mindset of how this would play out.

                          That said, wouldnt change decision - they clearly were the company to go with vs meetings with others (not to mention their rep here). I'd have understood some delay, why I held off before finally calling them July 11th but the installation that wouldve been completed approx last week Im guessing is still far off. Again, never was in a rush, just hate how overpromised timing skewed experience of all this.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by NJShore View Post
                            Q.PEAK DUO-G5 was the model from NJ Solar quote prior to us requesting Panasonic quote but surprising to hear theyre more efficient because was going off energysage listing them only standard plus vs premium or premium plus
                            Those are the panels I have....

                            So where did your quotes take you if anywhere?
                            12.35 kW - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X