What is the right system for me, 19,485 kWh yearly usage

[J.P.M.]

Nothing new?
You may want to correct an earlier post in another thread where you insisted that the time frame was 60 days. Glad you finally got it correct, especially since you are the man in your HOA doing that. Others may have relied on that factually incorrect statement.

As to your above reference to the statement I made in my 02/19/2019, 0139 hrs. post To Whit: of a 60 day time limit before imposition of fines on an HOA for non compliance of approval time line requirements of sec. 714(e) and 714(f), you are correct.

That 02/19/2019 statement was and is, (up until now) incorrect, and my error.

To be clear, At this time the current time allowed for HOA comment/disapproval (in lieu of request for further information) for alternate energy systems is 45 days as I stated in my 04/07/2019, 0714 hr. post to this thread.

My apologies to readers of my prior incorrect statement for any difficulties it may have caused. I will correct the error to the 02/19/2019 post immediately.

Thank you for catching my error.

After my error, it's too bad I couldn't find it myself, and also too bad you had to go looking for it in vendetta, pissing match fashion now instead of back on 02/20/2019 @ 0855 hrs. when you responded to that post. When did you notice my 02/19/2019 error ? Just curious.

[Ampster]

After my error, it's too bad I couldn't find it myself, and also too bad you had to go looking for it in vendetta, pissing match fashion now instead of back on 02/20/2019 @ 0855 hrs. when you responded to that post. When did you notice my 02/19/2019 error ? Just curious.

Vendetta? You really are paranoid.
I noticed it when you posted it and gave you a clue in that thread that I thought otherwise. Later, I didnt go looking for it. I did remember that I needed to verify it and eventually double checked that the response time was changed in 2014 exactly as I had remembered. I dont feel it is my duty to correct your errors but after you launched the tirades on another thread and made the snarky comment here, "nothing new" I thought you needed a reminder that you are not perfect.

[J.P.M.]

Vendetta? You really are paranoid.
I noticed it when you posted it and gave you a clue in that thread that I thought otherwise. Later, I didnt go looking for it. I did remember that I needed to verify it and eventually double checked that the response time was changed in 2014 exactly as I had remembered. I dont feel it is my duty to correct your errors but after you launched the tirades on another thread and made the snarky comment here, "nothing new" I thought you needed a reminder that you are not perfect.

Not perfect, never thought so and never implied such. Just trying to do my best, and appreciate error correction when it's valid. But I sure don't need reminders of my lack of perfection - an astounding blast of the obvious for me and the rest of humanity - especially from you.

[Ampster]

Not perfect, ..... and never implied such.

There is an allusion created in human dialogue when one actor is aggressive about pointing out another person's errors.
Perhaps, asking a few clarifying questions might help you avoid that. Do you need an example from one of our tete'd tetes?

[JSchnee21]

Well, I guess I have a few different thoughts so here I go:

Given that you'll need a fairly large array to offset your current and future usage (particularly once you add an EV or two), and that usable (WAF & HOA) roof space is limited and largely biased to East and West, and you live in a very hot and sunny climate. I personally would lean away from a commodity panel.

I think that SunPower panels are probably over priced and I would definitely not buy them from corporate with their Microinverter solution. But when considering options from reputable, highly regarded local installers, I would consider the following panels for your application:

1) LG Neon R -- Very good thermal coefficient. Very Good appearance. Excellent warranty. Mid to Upper cost (Of Premium High Efficiency Panels)
2) Panasonic HIT -- Best thermal coefficient. Good appearance. Very good warranty. Least cost (Of Premium High Efficiency Panels)
3) SunPower X22 or similar -- Good thermal coefficient. Excellent appearance. Very good warranty. Most Expensive (Of Premium High Efficiency Panels)

Be sure you identify at least two local vendors and have them model the production and cost of different panel solutions on the various faces of your home (that you are able to use).

Do these high efficiency panels cost more than commodity panels? They sure do, perhaps up to 2x the cost per watt -- for the panel itself. BUT as part of a turnkey solution (and the total $/W) , you're only going to be paying maybe $100-200 more per panel to upgrade. In my own case to upgrade form LG Neon2 to Panasonic for 37 Panels was less than $100 per panel.

None of us likes to waste money, but, given where you live, the size of your home, and energy usage, I don't think upgrading to a better panel is going to break the bank. But, by all means, if you can fit enough STC kW of commodity mid-tier panels (Trina, Hanwha, Jinko, LG Neon2, etc.) and you like the way they look, by all means save a couple bucks,

Definitely check with your installers and see what panel / roof spacing options are available. Having a wider air gap will definitely help to reduce the temperature of the panels and your roof. But, I'm not sure how many different options are really available here. Most installers have a racking system they prefer, and there may or may not be much flexibility in altering the spacing between the back of the panel and your roof (without doing something custom). Nearly all residential roof mount panels are mounted in the same plane as the roof (aka panel pitch matches roof pitch). But you can use all four roof faces (S,W,E,N) as your WAF and HOA permits.

I, personally, am not a fan of the SE7600 with the integrated L2 charger. Given your array size, you will need multiple inverters or at least one big one (11.400W). And I would recommend SE over other options. If your PoCo meter, and breaker panel are already in / on your garage, then the SE7600 w/L2 might make sense (assuming they make an "HD" version of it now). But if you go with 7600W you will need more than one (I would just get 2). Unless you have multiple 200amp panels (or one 400amp panel) you will need to consider a line side tap to tie them in.

IMHO, EV's and EV chargers continue to evolve. I personally wouldn't want to get locked into one option that's tied to my inverter. And your inverter(s) may or may not be in / near your garage / driveway (mine isn't). And if you are getting a Tesla, you may want an faster L2 charger or one that better integrates with your EV solution.

Finally, batteries. I agree they are not quite ready for prime time. But there have been a few here on the board who have gotten nice 1/2 off incentives from their PoCo or the state of CA (not sure which) so I wouldn't rule them out just yet. But I don't know the details or even if these promotions are still available. It is difficult if not impossible to break even on storage at the moment. But this depends a lot on an intricate understanding of your TOU options and rate pricing. So I would say, continue to investigate options, but be wary of the sales pitch.

To add enough storage to be useful, you're looking at at least $15K-$20K of additional spend with products from Tesla, LG, Sonnen, or Mercedes. But, a portion of this, spend is eligible for the 30% federal tax rebate. Some additional electrician re-wiring costs may also be needed.

[J.P.M.]

There is an allusion created in human dialogue when one actor is aggressive about pointing out another person's errors.
Perhaps, asking a few clarifying questions might help you avoid that. Do you need an example from one of our tete'd tetes?

Not from you.

[Ampster]

............
.

I, personally, am not a fan of the SE7600 with the integrated L2 charger. Given your array size, you will need multiple inverters or at least one big one (11.400W). And I would recommend SE over other options. If your PoCo meter, and breaker panel are already in / on your garage, then the SE7600 w/L2 might make sense (assuming they make an "HD" version of it now). But if you go with 7600W you will need more than one (I would just get 2). Unless you have multiple 200amp panels (or one 400amp panel) you will need to consider a line side tap to tie them in.

I checked and the SE 7600 with L2 charging cable does use HD Wave technology. The other advantages might be a single interface to track solar and schedule charging. Another advantage might be that is saves a breaker that might otherwise be needed for a separate EVSE. Although in the OPs case, as you mention, he is going to also need space in his panel for a breaker for the additional Inverter.
That being said, I am a fan of separate components for service ability. My EVSE plugs in and I have a portable one in my car for redundancy.

Finally, batteries. I agree they are not quite ready for prime time. But there have been a few here on the board who have gotten nice 1/2 off incentives from their PoCo or the state of CA (not sure which) so I wouldn't rule them out just yet. But I don't know the details or even if these promotions are still available. It is difficult if not impossible to break even on storage at the moment. But this depends a lot on an intricate understanding of your TOU options and rate pricing. So I would say, continue to investigate options, but be wary of the sales pitch.

To add enough storage to be useful, you're looking at at least $15K-$20K of additional spend with products from Tesla, LG, Sonnen, or Mercedes. But, a portion of this, spend is eligible for the 30% federal tax rebate. Some additional electrician re-wiring costs may also be needed.

In California there are incentives that reduce the cost. Many people have taken the full 30% tax credit for batteries as long as the batteries are charged by solar. There is still debate about whether the Incentive and tax credit can both be taken so best to get good tax advice.

[scrambler]

In California there are incentives that reduce the cost. Many people have taken the full 30% tax credit for batteries as long as the batteries are charged by solar. There is still debate about whether the Incentive and tax credit can both be taken so best to get good tax advice.

As far as I know and as confirmed by several local installer, you first apply the SGIP incentive (a few cents per kWh of battery), then the 30% tax credit gets applied to the amount minus the SGIP subsidy..
So you do get both, but you dont get the 30% on the price before subsidy

[out2dasea]

So I just got a bunch of quotes and these at the best ones so far with a smaller non big named brand company.

All have two solar edge 7600H inverters.
41 Panasonic vbhn330sa-16 panels $45,225 3.34$/w
37 Silfab-SLG-m 370 panels $41,175. 3.007$/w
43 Rec315NP panels. $39,825 2.94$/w
40 LG335N1C-a5_rev003 panels $45,225. 3.375$/W

Thoughts?

[Ampster]

........
So you do get both, but you dont get the 30% on the price before subsidy

The debate is actually about whether you can take the 30% on the full amount before rebate. I have heard both sides of the argument.

[scrambler]

If you guys have had that debate already no need reopen it
But everything I read in the Fine print, as well as accountant and installer told me was pretty clear that ITC should be calculated on the net after SGIP not the gross.
I am sure that wont stop some people from trying it the other way, and may be some can get away with it.

[scrambler]

So I just got a bunch of quotes and these at the best ones so far with a smaller non big named brand company.

All have two solar edge 7600H inverters.
41 Panasonic vbhn330sa-16 panels $45,225 3.34$/w
37 Silfab-SLG-m 370 panels $41,175. 3.007$/w
43 Rec315NP panels. $39,825 2.94$/w
40 LG335N1C-a5_rev003 panels $45,225. 3.375$/W

Thoughts?

I have recently researched the cheaper options, and for me it seems the REC is by far the best value, as they are among the cheapest, but with a product warranty and production warranty that is at the top just under Panasonic

Here is what I gathered:

• Although the company was acquired by a Chinese group a few years back, it is a Norwegian company, headquartered in Norway and manufacturing in Singapore, both countries with high quality standards.
• They have a reputation for very high quality (even in rough climate like Australia), and high bankability.
• Recent innovation panels with split cell technology (and PERC / PERT)
• They have the second highest warranty after Panasonic, with 20 years product warranty (eligible to 25 with certified installer), and a 25 years 86% production warranty (98% year one 0,5% /Y after that)
• They have very strong frame design with a 7000pa load
• All the top certifications, including the IEC 61701 level 6 for salt & mist exposure which is important for my site.
• Yet they are priced about $160 less per panel than the Panasonic ($190 versus $350) which is even cheaper than the SIlfab and QCell

[JSchnee21]

Note that the Silfab is a 72-cell panel which is physically larger and has silver frames. Both of which are fine if they fit on your roof and you like the appearance. Also note, the model of SE optimizer will vary depending on 60 cell, 72 cell, 96-cell

Be sure to google each of these models and look at images. Given the pricing you indicated, I'd lean towards the Rec315NP. The LG Neon2's are over priced -- they should be less than the Panasonics. Turnkey pricing overall looks good. The Panasonic pricing is good, and the panels are great, but I cannot really justify almost $5400 more. If you've got extra cash burning a whole in your pocket send some my way (just kidding) -- but you would be better served to get a few extra panels.

Others here may have comments re: Rec vs. Silfab, etc. from personal experience. But both are reputable, well know mfg.

I'd strongly recommend getting the Consumption monitoring option as well from SE. I find it very helpful to see production and consumption on the same graphs in the SE portal and PVOutput (dot org). Definitely use Ethernet for data, the cellular option is too slow and gives less data, Zigbee is hit or miss, and Wifi is still not available.

How many MWh's are your vendor's estimating your array will make? How many roof faces are you populating? Two or Three? When will you be charging your EV? Overnight? What will the cost per kWh be? Does your PoCo have a special EV rate plan?

Presumably your local installers are familiar with local HOA and PoCo requirements. So PoCo's limit total residential system size to 10kW for example, or make you buy extra insurance, etc.

[out2dasea]

Just got another quote for 41 Panasonic 330 panels, one SE 7600 inverter with batter charge, one 3800 inverter with EV charger, larger but local company at 3.28 $/W. They are sizing it at 13,530 KW. They are saying that In order to do the two 7600W inverters, I will need to either upgrade my panel or downsize to a 150 main breaker instead of the 200amp breaker that I have.. Since the panels are E/S and west facing, they said they wont peak at the same time and at worst, ill clip during longest day 45 kWh. Basically they are saying its not worth the upgrade of the panel to the larger inverter. Still weighing my options, particularly the REC panels. Unfortunately this also means I wont have room for much expansion with my current panel.

[Yet another Yeti]

Trying to figure out a string inverter solution :

1/3 of 42 panels would be 14 , but 12 fit for a 600V inverter .

The other 2/3 as 2*12 on the east roof , would make 36 standard 60cells :

1.) SMA 3.8-US south + SMA 7.7-US east

2.) Solectrica PVI 4000 south + 2x PVI 4000 east


Fronius Primo allows 1000 V , but not sure , if 1000 Vdc allowed in California ,
and then , there could be up to 20 or 21 standard 60cell panels per string possible .

Primo 10.0-1 with 1 string of 12-20 south and 2 strings of 12-20 east :
1*11 south and 2*16 east = 43 REC .



For Panasonic 96cells , 6 would go on a 600V string inverter :
2*6 south and 2*5*3 east = 42 Panasonic

1000 Volt inverter : 1*11 south + 3*11 east = 44 Panasonic .


Just my 2cents ...