SDGE Standard (DR) NEM 1.0 Customer ... what's next?

[J.P.M.]

So what do you think is next?

Since you ask, I think whatever has the highest probability of maximizing return on investment in the eyes of the POCO management has always been what drives "progress". I see nothing now or on the future radar that's likely to change that.

What the manipulated perceptions puked out from all sides that, IMO only, drive some of the social forces that seem to drive most of those probabilities may be, is an area I'm pretty much ignorant and clueless about, except that the social forces are what are easily manipulated by all sides of an issue and so usually done the most. Like in war, truth is the first victim.

[Ampster]

........I'm pretty much ignorant and clueless....... .

I couldn't resist truncating your long answer and turning it into a little humor. LOL

[J.P.M.]

I couldn't resist truncating your long answer and turning it into a little humor. LOL

Kind of hard to truncate a short one huh ? That answer was ~110 words. Not near as long as what some consider my usual mental spoor.

Dealing with people with short attention spans or ADHD is one of the risks of trying to provide complete and informative replys/comments.

I try to be complete in my answers/comments.

As for humor, I always took take my engineering and alternate energy matters very seriously. Myself, not so much.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Ampster]

Well you were fairly specific about the demise of Tiered rates and TOU, I was hoping you might have given some thought, more specifically, about the future or rates in California. My opinion, and hope, is that we get to real time pricing so I can shift loads and charge my cars at the optimum time. That is my parochial view but I dont think the majority or ratepayers are ready for that. While this may seem to be a hijack, I think it is in the context of "What is next".

[J.P.M.]

Well you were fairly specific about the demise of Tiered rates and TOU, I was hoping you might have given some thought, more specifically, about the future or rates in California. My opinion, and hope, is that we get to real time pricing so I can shift loads and charge my cars at the optimum time. That is my parochial view but I dont think the majority or ratepayers are ready for that. While this may seem to be a hijack, I think it is in the context of "What is next".

My thoughts on tiered rates are based on my beliefs in capitalism's ability to maximize short term gain for corporations (which I'm OK with) as well as people's lack of critical thinking skills and innate mental sloth to not be able to avoid being manipulated by what's actually mindscrewing propaganda (which I can do nothing about).

More like one possible logical outcome given those driving inputs rather than a prediction.

I also think it's logical to entertain the idea that under some future scenarios, users will be paid a premium for daytime distributed generation such as PV and pay draconian rates when most folks are charging their (perhaps) ubiquitous EV's and straining the grid. But that's more mental masturbation, not a prediction.

BTW, and taking you at your word, although I suspect sarcasm in your query , you got your wish - so don't say I never gave you anything - I have given rates a lot of thought - and, since like everyone else, I'm ignorant of what/who is pulling the strings, and I don't have all the information to have a seriously informed opinion on the subject, I fall back to having, by definition, an uninformed and therefore useless opinion. But unlike those future prognosticators who say things like we'll have flying cars and bulletproof underwear, or x-ray vision glasses that can see right through fabrics in 10 years, I don't have a clue about or the ego to think I can predict the future. I only plan for what may have a reasonable probability of being about the worst that might reasonably be expected and hope I'm pleasantly disappointed.

As usual, take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[UkiwiS]

This is an interesting topic. It's also a confusing one. I'm on NEM 1.0 and I believe the legislation gives us 20 years to transition to the "Successor tariff". I'm already on a TOU rate plan and have been since my PTO in July 2015. I have around 16 months to go on the Noon-6pm "On-Peak" window and then it's going to get interesting. I've been tracking my usage very closely over the last year and have just started doing it assuming the ON-Peak window has already shifted...the change is minimal right now due to the winter rates but in the summer it's going to be staggering. I'll effectively lose the 30 cents per kWh credit from that generation between noon and 6 pm so I already know my bill is going to take a big hit.

One pricing plan that is available to me currently is "Standard (DR)" which I assume is the standard tiered plan. My net usage would put me in tier 1 for 10 months of the year and slightly into tier 2 for the other 2 months. Net usage ranges from -80 kWh to 287 kWh and averages 158 kWh. I can already see that this Standard (DR) plan is going to be the one for me but I'm wondering how long it''ll be available for.

If I knew with certainty that this Standard DR plan would be an option for me for the next 15 years I would switch to it in July 2020. Maybe I should bite the bullet and switch now while it's still an option.

[Ampster]

As I mentioned to the original poster it all depends on you usage and how much of that you can shift to lower rate periods. J.P.M. and I agree that tiered rates wont be around for much longer. TOU rates are already common in the commercial and industrial sector and are becoming more common in residential. I predict that TOU rates will be around for a while. What will happen is the time periods will shift. I have already seen that in the one commercial rate plan I have, which also has solar and EV charging. We are not able to change when the sun will shine but we are able to shift loads. Since you are already on TOU you have enough data to determine whether going to a tiered rate would be beneficial. I would not rely on being able to stay on a tiered rate for long.

[UkiwiS]

I would not rely on being able to stay on a tiered rate for long.

Early adopters made financial decisions before many of these TOU plans came into effect

My reading of this document is that the transition period to the successor tariff is 20 years from the PTO date:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M089/K386/89386131.PDF

I'm not exactly sure what this means with regard to which plans are available to switch to. Could it mean that the tiered rate has to remain for NEM 1.0 customers until their 20 year anniversary?

[jflorey2]

So what do you think is next? Hourly market based pricing?

We were on an experimental real time pricing program last year. We saved a lot - but did not get to keep the savings; after the trial billing defaulted to the old tiered plan. I spent a few hours trying to track down what happened and gave up.

[J.P.M.]

Early adopters made financial decisions before many of these TOU plans came into effect

My reading of this document is that the transition period to the successor tariff is 20 years from the PTO date:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M089/K386/89386131.PDF

I'm not exactly sure what this means with regard to which plans are available to switch to. Could it mean that the tiered rate has to remain for NEM 1.0 customers until their 20 year anniversary?

Welcome to the land of the terminally confused brought to you by (what seems to be) the equally and perhaps deliberately confusing and inadequate to the task explanations from the apparently (and attempting to be kind here rather than being cynical as to their motives, but not na

[J.P.M.]

Welcome to the land of the terminally confused brought to you by (what seems to be) the equally and perhaps deliberately confusing and inadequate to the task explanations from the apparently (and attempting to be kind here rather than being cynical as to their motives, but not na

Well, the word "n a i v e" again truncated a post. My bad for not learning/remembering to stop using that word. Great software and follow through.

Synopsis of what got chopped which was probably mostly bloviating anyway: Yea, I've been bitching about the confusion caused by SDG & E's lack of clarity and information for a long tine now, probably in violation of one of the mandates of AB 327. Welcome to the land of what looks like intentional confusion.

[Ampster]

Well if you think what the IOUs are telling you is confusing try to follow what the CEC, CPUC or the CAISO are saying and doing. I have also watched some of those hearings and heard Michael Picker, Chair of CPUC, speak at a Greenwash symposium I attended when I was more engaged. I generally support the aggressive goals that the legislature and Governor have set but I also recognize the difficulty in implementing them.

[J.P.M.]

Well if you think what the IOUs are telling you is confusing try to follow what the CEC, CPUC or the CAISO are saying and doing. I have also watched some of those hearings and heard Michael Picker, Chair of CPUC, speak at a Greenwash symposium I attended when I was more engaged. I generally support the aggressive goals that the legislature and Governor have set but I also recognize the difficulty in implementing them.

Take this FWIW. What makes you think or assume I have not ? It has been my experience to find that usually, but not always, somewhere in a document, things are eventually found that addresses most terms and conditions. That includes most all of the information put out by the sources you cite and others. I believe my knowledge of such things is reasonably up to date, complete and thorough. I'm not afraid to get in anyone's face or manipulate them as may be necessary as peddler's seem to do best to get an answer.

You wondered if you struck a nerve the other day. That might be too strong a description, but maybe if I point out what I consider your presumptive and condescending thinking as exemplified above, you might gain further insight in understanding why I take your questions and what I take as your presumptive comments as loutish and hambrained.

Enough said.

[UkiwiS]

In the "Legislative Counsel's Digest" of AB327 here:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB327

...I found the following...


This bill would delete these provisions and instead prohibit the commission from requiring or permitting an electrical corporation from employing mandatory or default time-variant pricing, as defined, for any residential customer, except that beginning January 1, 2018, the commission may require or authorize an electrical corporation to employ default time-of-use pricing to residential customers, subject to specified limitations and conditions. The bill would permit the commission to authorize an electrical corporation to offer residential customers the option of receiving service pursuant to time-variant pricing and to participate in other demand response programs. The bill would provide that a residential customer would have the option to not receive service pursuant to time-variant pricing and not incur any additional charge as a result of the exercise of that option. Unless the commission has authorized an electrical corporation to employ default time-of-use pricing, the bill would require the commission to require each electrical corporation to offer default rates to residential customers with at least 2 usage tiers and would require that the first tier include electricity usage of no less than the baseline quantity established by the commission. The bill would authorize the commission to modify the baseline seasonal definitions and applicable percentage of average consumption for one or more climate zones.

So, Has the commission authorized an electrical corporation to employ default time-of use pricing? If they haven't, then SDGE must make Standard (DR) available, right?

[UkiwiS]

Additionally, I chatted with SDG&E just now and they confirmed that Standard (DR) will be available to me for 20 years from my PTO date.

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