SDGE Standard (DR) NEM 1.0 Customer ... what's next?

[MoJ]

I think I know the answer, but wanted to get a confirmation from the collective brilliance here

I got PTO just under the wire to qualify for NEM 1.0 DR (tiered) rates. My understanding is that I can decline the TOU plans and stick with my tiered structure - and that this is the right decision.

I'm slightly undersized, so I usually owe $300-500 at True-up. Looking at TOU, I definitely have my peaks 4-9pm. The SDGE plan calculator says I would save $45/year going with TOU-DR-P. But if I do that - I would forever lose the ability to go back to the standard tiered tarrif, right?

If I had to go to TOU, it would make sense to look at putting in a battery hybrid, but that would push out my ROI (currently should breakeven at 48 months). Not even sure a battery will be easy (new inverter, would that mess up my NEM 1.0 grandfather status?).

Thanks for your input folks,
mj

[Ampster]

The answer depends on when your usage occurs. It also could be influenced by how much discretion you have over when you use heavy loads. On your tiered rate plan, are you getting into upper tiers?

I prefer to model my usage by TOU rate period to get the answer about which TOU rate period is best. Since I already have my annual usage by TOU period that is easy to do even with my rudimentary spreadsheet skills. The alternative for you, since you dont have interval data, is to download your Green Button data from your utility and use a spreadsheet to group your data into the relevant TOU periods.

Whether or not to trust your utility to do that for you is a personal decision.

[J.P.M.]

MoJ:

Regarding your question, re: declining to go over to TOU pricing. - See the following:

https://www.sgdenews.com/article/trending-questions-regarding-time-use-pricing-plans

That info is dated 03/04/2019.

From the looks of that info, it appears to me like NEM 1.0 eligible such as yourself (and me, FWIW), and other users will be able to stay on tiered rates, for now anyway.

It also says that if a users is switched to TOU, and their bill is more, SDG & E will refund the difference. Maybe I'm a terminal skeptic, but that's not the same as being able to go back to a tiered rate.

BUT, I wouldn't trust SDG & E to be anything but vague and confusing (purposely so ??) about the need for, and the mechanics of, the user to proactively notify SDG & E of their (the user's) choice to stay on (or return to) tiered rates once SDG & E changes that user over to a T.O.U. rate.

I'd take note of item #5 of the above referenced SDG & E article: "The non-TOU plans remain available for customers who choose to opt out of TOU pricing plans." However, my above referenced skepticism remains.

The operative words there (for me anyway) are "opt out", which seems to imply or reinforce the idea that if the user doesn't actively opt out, and maybe before the SDG & E initiated switch over to TOU occurs, that user is going to TOU. The folks on the phone at SDG & E are silent on that point so far ("Duh - we have no information on that.")

As for how long a tiered rate schedule may remain available, who knows ? My ignorant guess would be that as long as the CPUC mandates it, existing customers who are on tiered rates and want to remain on them, will be allowed to do just that with a tiered rate available to such users but with the option to choose that rate schedule closed to new users at some point, and maybe after 2016 + 20 years, tiered rates simply cease. But, who knows.

In the meantime, and more FWIW only, the greenbutton data from SDG & E seems to match up pretty well with what I have with respect to my usage as for amount and times of use. I'd suggest it's possible to get a decent SWAG at how much of an annual bill change will occur ($$+/-) if/when a switch in rate schedules occurs.

For me, at this time, staying on tiered rates is in my best financial interest. But, every situation is different.

It's a bit of a PITA setting up an accurate spreadsheet to figure all the rate options to get a best guess as to what's the best choice for any user, but once it's done, and done thoroughly and correctly (the real PITA part), the rest is pretty much of a cakewalk to keep updated. If you do it right, you'll learn a lot about rates and maybe come to share some of my skepticism about SDG & E's veracity. Not that I fault them for it. It's just business.

As for which TOU rate plan you choose, unless you choose some other UOU plan, the OAR (Otherwise Applicable Rate) will be sch. DR-SES. If so, it's possible to gat a rough estimate (using PVWatts data) for how much annual bill offset will result from your 7.29 kW horizontal array. Your net bill will then be, very approximately, whatever you would be billed for without the PV minus that bill offset, in $$'s, that's provided by the PV. Holler back with your zip if interested.

An off topic question: How's your horizontal orientation working with respect to panel fouling (dirt) and performance ?

[MoJ]

Thanks guys ... I have a instinctual distrust of utility companies, so you're confirming where I'm at Since I have everything reporting to PVO (rainforest for consumption, inverter for generation) I'm going to take a stab at it from the data I can download there.

At a high level, looking back and applying the new rates against past performance, I think it's probably best to stay tiered. 10 out of 12 months I'm in the 1st tier - and the other two months (July, August) I hit the 2nd tier. I never hit the "superuser" or now baseline+400% tier.

I really appreciate the thoughtful confirmation - both of my logic and assumptions!

@JPM- I just posted another response in the panel cleaning thread ... I did an experiment measuring output at the same time, two different days (all 100% clear). After cleaning (and I mean CLEANING... hosed down, then with cleaning solution, then soft bristle brush, rinse, then squeegee) I saw a 0.6% increase. Definitely not worth the time, effort, or water cost!

[rwb1921]

I just checked online and my Tiered Plan is ending May 6th for SDGE. See below. I have to make a choice online to stay on Standard Plan which I did now. I feel it will be best for now for my situation. Had I not done anything, they would have switched me to TOU Plan. See below for info from SDGE plan changes page. I am having to cancel the change to TOU now and may have to each year it appears. Commitment is for 1 year.


Your current pricing plan is changing to Time of Use (TOU-DR1) on May 07, 2019. Please see below to learn more about your pricing plan or compare other pricing plan options to choose the best plan for your energy needs.

My action:

Cancel Enrollment of Pending Pricing Plan

You have selected to cancel your new plan. You must review the information below and then agree to the terms and conditions (*required fields) to be re-enrolled in your old pricing plan.
Standard (DR) summary:

• Estimated Cost Per Year:
  $23 per year
  
  
  
  Your estimated cost is based on current approved rates, your past 12 months of electricity use for the selected meter, your choice of capacity reservation and any other information you may have provided. Actual costs may vary depending on rate changes and your actual electricity usage.

• 1 Year Commitment
  • This plan has a one-year commitment. At the end of one year, you can remain on the plan or choose a different plan.

• 1 Year No Risk Pricing - Not Available

• Details
  • Pricing based on how much electricity is used.
  • As you use more electricity, you cross into higher cost tiers.
  • Pricing does not change with time of day.
  • Includes baseline allowance.
  • Subject to High Usage Charge.

• This plan is for you if:
  • You can conserve to stay under the baseline allowance, or
  • You cannot shift some of your electricity use away from the on-peak hours of 4 p.m. - 9 p.m.

Cancel Enrollment of Pending Pricing Plan

You have successfully cancelled your pending plan and will stay on your current plan, Standard (DR).

[rwb1921]

I just checked my SDGE account. They were going to switch me to TOU plan on May 7th. I had to go and cancel that change to TOU and say I wanted to stay on Standard DR Plan.

So you may want to check your account page on SDGE website. Also it said this commitment was for 1 year, so maybe have to each year choose to stay on Standard DR Plan if that is what I want to do. Need to be proactive on this it looks like. My change was successful in canceling the TOU change. This can all be done on the website.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks guys ... I have a instinctual distrust of utility companies, so you're confirming where I'm at Since I have everything reporting to PVO (rainforest for consumption, inverter for generation) I'm going to take a stab at it from the data I can download there.

At a high level, looking back and applying the new rates against past performance, I think it's probably best to stay tiered. 10 out of 12 months I'm in the 1st tier - and the other two months (July, August) I hit the 2nd tier. I never hit the "superuser" or now baseline+400% tier.

I really appreciate the thoughtful confirmation - both of my logic and assumptions!

@JPM- I just posted another response in the panel cleaning thread ... I did an experiment measuring output at the same time, two different days (all 100% clear). After cleaning (and I mean CLEANING... hosed down, then with cleaning solution, then soft bristle brush, rinse, then squeegee) I saw a 0.6% increase. Definitely not worth the time, effort, or water cost!

Thanx for the response. For anything I provided that you found useful, you're welcome.

I saw your post about your cleaning. My questions about your panel fouling or performance regradation from such fouling were more meant as a request for more information since that report. I was wondering if you could comment on any recent observations about panel characteristics since then, that is, any dust/mud buildup you might have observed. The horizontal arrays I've seen tend to turn into shallow sandboxes or dirt pans after a dry spell followed by some rain or morning fog around here and other places that tends to cake things up. Just wondering if you saw something similar or whatever.

Just wondering what you've seen after a couple/3 years of observation. Fouling tends to accrue and often up to an order of magnitude more than that 0.6 % you calc'ed.

I also looked at your PVOutput output, both daily and yearly. On the yearly, I noticed you're output for 2016, 2017 and 2018 is 9,686, 9,746 and 9219 kWh/yr. respectively.

I then ran PVWatts for zip 92116 and got an annual output of 11,388 kWh/yr. w/ horizontal orientation and 10 % system losses on a 7.29kW array.

NOMB or concern, but either PVOutput is underreporting, or you've got a lot of shade (as might be the case looking the photos you've provided), or that horizontal orientation is raising hell with keeping things clean, or all of the above or other things as well. I've found PVWatts to be reasonably good at modeling output in a way that matches reality provided the model input reasonably reflects on site reality. At 11,800 kWh/yr. modeled vs., say 9,600 kWh/yr. or less actual, the model is missing something.

Also, are you sure you use more than you generate over a year ? Staying in tier 1 for 10 months out of 12 would mean 10 months of usage would be ~ 9.1 kWh/day*1.3*31 days/billing period * 10 billing periods ~ 3,667 kWh for 10 billing periods (if you're in the coastal zone and also have nat. gas service). But, if you use more than the 9,219 kWh that PVOutput reports you generated for 2018, that would mean for 2 months you used something like 9,219-3,667 = 5,552 kWh. That would also put you way over the 400 % superuser threshold you also say you have avoided.

Am I missing some information here ?

[J.P.M.]

I just checked my SDGE account. They were going to switch me to TOU plan on May 7th. I had to go and cancel that change to TOU and say I wanted to stay on Standard DR Plan.

So you may want to check your account page on SDGE website. Also it said this commitment was for 1 year, so maybe have to each year choose to stay on Standard DR Plan if that is what I want to do. Need to be proactive on this it looks like. My change was successful in canceling the TOU change. This can all be done on the website.

This is little more than anecdotal so I don't say I'm stating fact, but from all my phone calls to SDG & E, I've yet to get a straight answer to the question : "If you switch me to TOU and I proactively decline your generous and so very helpful offer, do I need to renew my election of decline each year ?".

I haven't received such a notice as you've received yet, but I expect one soon enough.

[Ampster]

MoJ:

..........
As for how long a tiered rate schedule may remain available, who knows ? My ignorant guess would be that as long as the CPUC mandates it, existing customers who are on tiered rates and want to remain on them, will be allowed to do just that with a tiered rate available to such users but with the option to choose that rate schedule closed to new users at some point, and maybe after 2016 + 20 years, tiered rates simply cease. But, who knows.
.............

I believe it is California Energy Commission policy that dictated that the IOUs (Independently Owned Utilities) move residential customers to TOU rates. Each IOU then submitted to the CPUC their rate plans which may or may not include the options for the customers to opt out and perhaps even to reimburse a ratepayor if his TOU bill is higher than the tiered plan. I would doubt if the CPUC mandated that tiered customers could remain on tiered rates.I think it sounds more like a good will gesture by the IOUs. I could be wrong, it is just an opinion,

You ask a good question about the opt out and whether you would have to do it every year. I haven't read the tariff but I suspect it is not there and after a year if you accept the opt in then you are stuck. I don't have a dog in that fight because I have been on a TOU rate for years with solar and EVs. I have a lot of usage that would likely put me into higher tiers but most of it is at super off peak rates so I have benefited from TOU rates. Even the baseline credit has benefited me under the TOU EV plan with SCE.

[rwb1921]

This is little more than anecdotal so I don't say I'm stating fact, but from all my phone calls to SDG & E, I've yet to get a straight answer to the question : "If you switch me to TOU and I proactively decline your generous and so very helpful offer, do I need to renew my election of decline each year ?".

I haven't received such a notice as you've received yet, but I expect one soon enough.

I received an email and also a letter but did not know they had "officially" switched me until I went online tonight and checked my account under Pricing Plan. There is where I saw the change being implemented on May 7th.

Here is info from my Pricing Plan on the website since I changed from TOU to Standard again:

Plan Details
Standard plan pricing is based on how much electricity is used.
Pricing is based on electricity use levels, or tiers. As you use more electricity, you cross into higher cost tiers.
Pricing does not change with time of day.
Includes baseline allowance.
Subject to High Usage Charge.

1 Year Commitment: Once you enroll in a new pricing plan, you stay on that plan for one year. At the end of one year, you can remain on the same plan or choose a different plan.

This plan is for you if:

You can conserve to stay under the baseline allowance, or
You cannot shift some of your electricity use away from the on-peak hours of 4 p.m. - 9 p.m.

[J.P.M.]

I believe it is California Energy Commission policy that dictated that the IOUs (Independently Owned Utilities) move residential customers to TOU rates. Each IOU then submitted to the CPUC their rate plans which may or may not include the options for the customers to opt out and perhaps even to reimburse a ratepayor if his TOU bill is higher than the tiered plan. I would doubt if the CPUC mandated that tiered customers could remain on tiered rates.I think it sounds more like a good will gesture by the IOUs. I could be wrong, it is just an opinion,

You ask a good question about the opt out and whether you would have to do it every year. I haven't read the tariff but I suspect it is not there and after a year if you accept the opt in then you are stuck. I don't have a dog in that fight because I have been on a TOU rate for years with solar and EVs. I have a lot of usage that would likely put me into higher tiers but most of it is at super off peak rates so I have benefited from TOU rates. Even the baseline credit has benefited me under the TOU EV plan with SCE.

I don't believe the CPUC did any such thing. The CPUC gave the IOU's the option and the enabled encouragement for the IOU's to come up with encouraging framework to move customers to TOU. That's probably what they wanted and jumped all over it.

The IOU's, then, seeing a way to get out from the more onerous aspects of NEM as well as some billing methods that may make the demand a bit more manageable as well as enhance revenue a bit, either duped (by half truth/implication/lack of information/confusion/innuhalf truth), or encouraged customers into thinking they (the customers) have no choice in the matter.

I've no doubt TOU will probably come to an end, but that point is not here yet, in spite of what the POCOs may try to convince people of.

From the SDG & E news letter I quoted yesterday: "The non-TOU plans remain available for customers who choose to opt out of TOU pricing plans". I've been told the same verbally for a couple of years now on (I think) 3 occasions by SDG & E personnel tasked with answering customers' questions. They have all been uniform in also stating they do not know when TOU will end, but that it "probably will" (end).

1.) Given the push for TOU, I don't believe for one hot second SDG & E would allow a user to stay on tiered rates if they (SDG & E) weren't required to allow it.

2.) At some point tiered rates will probably go away. Of that I have no doubt.

An example of the confusion being sowed that only helps SDG & E achieve it's ends: A written timeline that states, among other milestones in the TOU transition : "2019: tiered rates end." Then a statement such as the one I quoted from SDG & E material published 03/04/2019 where they write those customers who are on tiered rates can stay there with no mention (in that statement anyway) of tiered rates going away. None of all this B.S. is necessarily false. Most of it that I've seen is confusing, incomplete or conflicting. W.T.F. ?

As for the quality of my question, you can certainly say you understand it not, or you can certainly have the opinion that t's a good/bad/whatever question, but you are not the arbiter of the absolute value of my question.

If you read anything, if you have not done so already, I'd respectfully suggest you consider reading AB 327 and all the shenanigans that led up to it. I found reading it gave me good and essential background.

As a side note, if you, or anyone else read the bill, notice one of the mandates and goals of the bill was to make rate structure and rate setting more understandable for consumers. Given the added confusion and billing complexity I've seen since the bill was signed and implementation has moved forward, that part of the bill seems like a miss or a joke to me at this time.

[J.P.M.]

I received an email and also a letter but did not know they had "officially" switched me until I went online tonight and checked my account under Pricing Plan. There is where I saw the change being implemented on May 7th.

Here is info from my Pricing Plan on the website since I changed from TOU to Standard again:

Plan Details
Standard plan pricing is based on how much electricity is used.
Pricing is based on electricity use levels, or tiers. As you use more electricity, you cross into higher cost tiers.
Pricing does not change with time of day.
Includes baseline allowance.
Subject to High Usage Charge.

1 Year Commitment: Once you enroll in a new pricing plan, you stay on that plan for one year. At the end of one year, you can remain on the same plan or choose a different plan.

This plan is for you if:

You can conserve to stay under the baseline allowance, or
You cannot shift some of your electricity use away from the on-peak hours of 4 p.m. - 9 p.m.

Thank you far the info. I'd only comment/question:

If residential users are being moved to T.O.U. rates, and tiered rates are being scrapped, why are tiered rates called "Standard" ?

At this time, and by their own statements there are ~ 750,000 SDG & E residential accounts to be switched over to T.O.U. rates - that is - most current residential accounts. By my guess, and an informal survey among my friends and neighbors, most of those users are clueless about what is about to happen. They'll mostly and only find out when the summer bills hit after the switch. Then, folks will be aghast when the summer bills hit, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then, two things, among many, will likely occur:

1.) Electrical use will drop. You want people to use less of something - hit'em in the wallet. Works every time.

2.) The PV business will see a revival and PV prices will stabilize or go up a bit, depending on demand for PV as a way of either relief from the bills or a way to get even with the POCO, or both, or how knee-jerky and panicky users get in their urge to run from what they see as high bills.

Meanwhile, most potential PV users will be clueless that PV under the new T.O.U. pricing and hours is now about 20% to 25 % less cost effective than it was under the old T.O.U. pricing, mostly because of the peak pricing hours shift, or that for those who conserve a bit, PV can still be cost effective when used with a tiered rate (which most users may think - with SDG & E's cynical information methods - went away).

[Ampster]

...............
As for the quality of my question, you can certainly say you understand it not, or you can certainly have the opinion that t's a good/bad/whatever question, but you are not the arbiter of the absolute value of my question.
...........

Arbiter? I was just expressing an opinion. Why is it even impotant enough to comment upon? Did I hit some nerve? This is just a dialog.

[J.P.M.]

Arbiter? I was just expressing an opinion.

Me too.

[Ampster]

..........

I've no doubt TOU will probably come to an end.........

At some point tiered rates will probably go away. Of that I have no doubt.
......

So what do you think is next? Hourly market based pricing? I understand from the CAISO website that there is a glut of power in the morning and early afternoon from all the solar being generated. As an EV owner I wonder if we will ever see charging stations with price signs like we do with filling stations today.