Code department giving me a hard time ... need advice on first grid tie installation

[Mike90250]

apparently not ... the system is not working well for me today. I keep getting cut posts

Many non-windows devices, use non-standard fonts and character sets that the forum antispam software interpret's as spam.

[J.P.M.]

Screen Shot 2018-12-22 at 9.50.11 AM.png

Ken:

So, what's the status on the AHJ and their opinions about your roof's ability to support new loads imposed as a result of adding an array to it. ?

I appreciate the vendor's response, but I'd get to the AHJ that the vendor spoke with and confirm - in writing or reference to statute by them, if only as a trust but verify move.

Besides, as I see/interpret what you've written, it sounds (reads) like someone is saying "go ahead with the installation - we'll worry about/address roof loads later" sort of thing. That's no good. First of all, it's not from an AHJ - at this time, it's only from a vendor. Second, it's not in writing from an AHJ. Third, it's a bad practice - it makes you live without a net if you proceed with the installation and the AHJ later (or sooner) finds something on the roof that needs remediation/change and you've got an array over it so it'll be a hassle or extra $$/time to change, or worse - and unlikely but possible - the AHJ finds that the roof is completely insufficient and you have a roof can't be remediated/modified for any price.

Lastly, it's from a vendor who, regardless of how likeable they may be, won't need to deal with the possible bad consequences of such advice.

I'd be very careful, deal only with the AHJ for what they may or may not approve, take good notes of all dealings, get all their direction/determinations in writing and make sure you understand what they are telling you including all ramifications with respect to other requirements, including those that may impact POCO requirements.

Back to the original question: What documentation does the AHJ want to see with respect to your roof loads and what loads will they sign off on ?

Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player.

[Paul Land]

Update: The swell people at ecolibriumsolar.com called my engineering inspector and reported this back :

"Please see the attached updated engineering letter for North Carolina. I received a message from the Plans Reviewer this morning. It sounded like you could pick up your permit, #xxxxxxxx, anytime.

His main concern seems to be with the ability of your existing roof structure to support the additional loads of the solar array. This letter will not satisfy that concern but it has been updated to reference the latest building codes. We are not able to provide a letter addressing your roof

Its very simple get a letter from structural engineer that will be satisfactory. Its a partial inspection will cost you $150-$250 for roof. Code dept only cares about your safety and conformity

[J.P.M.]

Its very simple get a letter from structural engineer that will be satisfactory. Its a partial inspection will cost you $150-$250 for roof. Code dept only cares about your safety and conformity

And as the OP's agent, a person qualified to render an opinion as to the suitability of a structure to take a new set of imposed loadings must know what the regulatory agency is looking for. Hence, my suggestion that the OP get specifics with respect to codes, standards and other things that deal with what's required in terms of analysis of the current structure or any loading requirements. It may or may not be a simple process.

How do you know it's simple ? You don't have any idea what's required for this application. Might take an hr. Might be a formality. Might require more digging and/or more site inspection. Also, how did you find the price for engineering work in NC ?

If I had a P.E. license in NC and was still working, I'd do it, or at least take a look at it, but not without more information than has been provided thus far on this forum. I bet you have no more information about this than I have.

I don't know how you divined all your information - guesswork or intuition ? Or, have you done a lot of work in NC ?

OP/Ken: If you don't have all the information already, structural and everything else, get specifics on what the AHJ needs to have from you for them to be able to sign off on your application.

You may believe this or not, but they are not out to get you - if for no other reason that it only creates more work for them. They can be helpful and a real resource if you treat them as professionals and in a professional way. The alternative is to give them attitude with the result you'll get that back in spades.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Paul Land]

And as the OP's agent, a person qualified to render an opinion as to the suitability of a structure to take a new set of imposed loadings must know what the regulatory agency is looking for. Hence, my suggestion that the OP get specifics with respect to codes, standards and other things that deal with what's required in terms of analysis of the current structure or any loading requirements. It may or may not be a simple process.

How do you know it's simple ? You don't have any idea what's required for this application. Might take an hr. Might be a formality. Might require more digging and/or more site inspection. Also, how did you find the price for engineering work in NC ?

If I had a P.E. license in NC and was still working, I'd do it, or at least take a look at it, but not without more information than has been provided thus far on this forum. I bet you have no more information about this than I have.

I don't know how you divined all your information - guesswork or intuition ? Or, have you done a lot of work in NC ?

OP/Ken: If you don't have all the information already, structural and everything else, get specifics on what the AHJ needs to have from you for them to be able to sign off on your application.

You may believe this or not, but they are not out to get you - if for no other reason that it only creates more work for them. They can be helpful and a real resource if you treat them as professionals and in a professional way. The alternative is to give them attitude with the result you'll get that back in spades.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

What happened to K.I.S.S. Letters, Permits, variance, site-assessment, public hearings and zoning work to complete or start projects. Being a builder and G.C. I had to deal with all the above and have built homes in WV,SC,NC,FL,TN,NY.Carpenters Union Local 17 since 1984. While working in TN one PV job my foot almost want thru roof all permits were still checked off by inspector . Go figure!!!

[Paul Land]

KenlnNC I talked to my Engineer He can get PE Stamp drawing/letter for $100.00 for your , Ref: Load limits for trussed roof. Let me know

[Sunking]

When were talking about the PV structure we are talking about Thermal Load, Array Cooling with Direct mount and Stand off or Racking Systems.

Another engineer who says you are nothing but hot air and clueless. OP ignore this guy.

[Paul Land]

Another engineer who says you are nothing but hot air and clueless. OP ignore this guy.

Another useless Theory by another engineer bloviating never ending diatribes

[J.P.M.]

Another useless Theory by another engineer bloviating never ending diatribes

Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions - but as Tip O'neil said, not our own facts.

You may think or call it useless, but I'd suggest it's more of an opinion than any theory S.K. may hold.

Fortunately, it's likely an opinion that's at least partially based on experience at spotting B.S.

As for being a diatribe, I'd suggest that those of us with some recognized professional competence as professional engineers may also have experience at spotting B.S. when we smell it, particularly in areas where we claim such professional competence. I'd consider SK's comment a warning to others rather than a diatribe.

When working, I claimed competence with respect to mechanical design of structures, particularly as mechanical design requirements relate to external loadings such as those induced by wind or seismic forces.

Furthermore, and still IMO only, I know more about designing structures for wind, including considerations for flow induced vibration than you'll know for quite some time - if ever. And FWIW, I probably forgot more about solar energy utilization that you'll ever know.

IMO, and on the basis of my knowledge and experience in the area of mechanical design of structures to meet external loading conditions, and from what you've written, you do not have the knowledge, experience or qualifications to give opinions in such matters.

As such, I'd respectfully suggest the management and mods around here consider measures to keep you from making comments relating to or offering opinions about such matters, as those comments may have an unacceptably high probability of being at least non productive, wasteful of time and/or resources, or at worst, dangerous to those who, for whatever reason(s), can't see them for the self aggrandizing B.S. that for the most part they are.

Do us all a favor, knock off the B.S. and stick to what you know.

[Sunking]

Do us all a favor, knock off the B.S. and stick to what you know.

Ditto. However if he complies would have nothing to say. He is becoming a target, err I mean another Karrak wannabe.

[Paul Land]

Ditto. However if he complies would have nothing to say. He is becoming a target, err I mean another Karrak wannabe.

1 Selenium Cell+2 Wires+1 Bulb ADD: Photons & Viola. Thats all it is. Now upscale that to your hearts and pocketbook content. Very few people build there own solar-cells, CC and Inverters. I physically can and have not just in theory on paper.They just need a simple i repeat simple answer to there question. How is being called Dangerous Stupid and Wrong helping them in any way. Just tell them what they need to know simply without all the Mumbo-Jumbo. Thats what i try to do and if i am wrong i get corrected here and relay that correctly in future posts and thank you for correcting me. Learning is fun and thats why newbies and oldies post here. YOU are a genius and it shows in your posts and No.of posts. I can post about all about power vectors to the Nth Degree too! But why no one cares they just want a minimal answer to assist them to start or complete project.

[J.P.M.]

1 Selenium Cell+2 Wires+1 Bulb ADD: Photons & Viola. Thats all it is. Now upscale that to your hearts and pocketbook content. Very few people build there own solar-cells, CC and Inverters. I physically can and have not just in theory on paper.They just need a simple i repeat simple answer to there question. How is being called Dangerous Stupid and Wrong helping them in any way. Just tell them what they need to know simply without all the Mumbo-Jumbo. Thats what i try to do and if i am wrong i get corrected here and relay that correctly in future posts and thank you for correcting me. Learning is fun and thats why newbies and oldies post here. YOU are a genius and it shows in your posts and No.of posts. I can post about all about power vectors to the Nth Degree too! But why no one cares they just want a minimal answer to assist them to start or complete project.

Mods:

This poster is acting like a locomotive that's lost the flanges on its driving wheels.

[sdold]

1 Selenium Cell+2 Wires+1 Bulb ADD: Photons & Viola. Thats all it is. Now upscale that to your hearts and pocketbook content. Very few people build there own solar-cells, CC and Inverters. I physically can and have not just in theory on paper.They just need a simple i repeat simple answer to there question. How is being called Dangerous Stupid and Wrong helping them in any way. Just tell them what they need to know simply without all the Mumbo-Jumbo. Thats what i try to do and if i am wrong i get corrected here and relay that correctly in future posts and thank you for correcting me. Learning is fun and thats why newbies and oldies post here. YOU are a genius and it shows in your posts and No.of posts. I can post about all about power vectors to the Nth Degree too! But why no one cares they just want a minimal answer to assist them to start or complete project.

Paul,

I won't call you stupid, dangerous or wrong, but please slow down, take a breather and read and learn for a few weeks before giving advice. You are often shooting from the hip with information that is tangential to the conversation and/or counter to good engineering practices. Examples are referencing engineering data for the mounting hardware when the discussion is clearly about the underlying structure, and then throwing grounding methods and even thermal loading into the mix, and then stubbornly digging your heels in when several people call you on it and ask you to stop. We'd like you to hang around but please resist the urge to answer questions that are out of your area of expertise.

Thanks.

[Sunking]

This poster is acting like a locomotive that's lost the flanges on its driving wheels.

Have a nice laugh JPM. We ran him off and got him banned. Well actually he got himself banned for being a PRETENDER and liar. We just helped expose him. Good job moderators for spotting a fake.

[Mike90250]

I put paul on vacation for the "capacitor" comment.