Installing Solar Panels in small motel. HELP!

[whocares?]

I am looking to buy a small motel with 21 rooms. I am able to buy solar panels at an excellent price. Now it has been calculated out that I would need 20 300 watt solar panels to make the conversion worth doing. The motel will get the following on the roof. 4 hours full sun in the summer, and 8 hours 1/2 sun everyday no less than 90 days per year. - This is not exact, but close. In the winter of course direct sun will decrease to 2 hours per day, and 1/2 sun for 4 hours per day.
Now, all I want to do, is to know the offset of running 21 5,000 BTU window units 16 hours per day 180 days per year. Basically will one 300 watt solar panel offset the cost of electricity to run a single 5000 BTU ac unit a day?

[SunEagle]

I am looking to buy a small motel with 21 rooms. I am able to buy solar panels at an excellent price. Now it has been calculated out that I would need 20 300 watt solar panels to make the conversion worth doing. The motel will get the following on the roof. 4 hours full sun in the summer, and 8 hours 1/2 sun everyday no less than 90 days per year. - This is not exact, but close. In the winter of course direct sun will decrease to 2 hours per day, and 1/2 sun for 4 hours per day.
Now, all I want to do, is to know the offset of running 21 5,000 BTU window units 16 hours per day 180 days per year. Basically will one 300 watt solar panel offset the cost of electricity to run a single 5000 BTU ac unit a day?

Short answer NO. First off most 5k btu window units will not run directly from a solar panel. You will need batteries and a DC to AC inverter.

A 5000 BTU unit probably draws over 900 watt hours a day. That would require a solar / battery system sized around 300Ah with about 400 watts of panels, a 30amp MPPT CC and a 1000 watt Pure Sine wave inverter.

Now multiply that by 21 times and you may get away with keeping some of those rooms cool.

Best bet would be to take those 20 panels and install a grid tie pv system. Depending on where you live and what you pay for electricity will determine a payback of sort. Going with batteries will never get your money back.

[whocares?]

This is a motel. It has to be a grid tied system. The A/C units are rated at 460 watts. The cost per watt here is around 10 cents, although I can see the price rising in the future. I would never consider buying an off grid system for a business, unless there was no other way to get power.
Basically I am able to get the panels and have them installed for a total cost of $20,000 for 350 Watt panels. The reason I put 300 watt panels is to cover the future efficiency of them. (The solar panels are two years old, and were used by a power company that relocated their solar array to a better location).

[SunEagle]

This is a motel. It has to be a grid tied system. The A/C units are rated at 460 watts. The cost per watt here is around 10 cents, although I can see the price rising in the future. I would never consider buying an off grid system for a business, unless there was no other way to get power.
Basically I am able to get the panels and have them installed for a total cost of $20,000 for 350 Watt panels. The reason I put 300 watt panels is to cover the future efficiency of them. (The solar panels are two years old, and were used by a power company that relocated their solar array to a better location).

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Some people come here looking to purchase property way off the beaten track and then want to power everything using solar which is usually a little out of their pocket book range.

Sounds like you have a good plan for a grid tie system. The 7000 watt should help off-set a good amount of electricity usage during the day time. At an installed cost < $3/watt (i assume before any rebates) the system should pay for itself within 10 years even at 10 cents per watt.

[JSchnee21]

If the hotel exists, and you have historical power consumption data (e.g. kWh, MWh, per month / year) use PVWatts or SolarEdge Site Designer to model the anticipated productivity of different sized solar arrays in your geographic location.

[whocares?]

Two things I made a mistake with. The cost is 10 cents for kW in which I think you assumed? The other is that I can actually get and additional 10 panels installed for anther $5,000. That will take the price up to $25,000.
Now also I have a licensed Master Electrician that is going to do the work, however, with this being said, he told me that I may want to talk to a solar company to install the panels, because they may be more efficient at installing them than him. I did so, but they will not install the panels, they will only install their own panels because of what the say are "Warranty Issues". Of course the cost to install the same exact brand of new solar panels cost twice as much.
Now, my electrician, I have known for more than 10 years, and has installed larger systems than what he is doing for me. I know he can do the job and have it completed within a week. So, really I have more confidence in him, than a solar company.
I have gotten a lot of education in Solar Panels is the past week, and I can tell you now, that for most people they are not a good deal in many states, no matter of the tax breaks etc...
I found out that in a state that borders where I live, the power companies are only allowed to buy back half of what the calculated use of your power is. For instance, if you use 1500kW a month in power, and you have an array that will zero out your usage, by law the power companies are allowed to only pay for 750kW you send to them. So, if your power bill is 500 dollars a month, no matter how big your array is, they will use your power, but still charge you 250 dollars per month. The only way to avoid this is to register your array a power plant, and the administration fees are so high to do that, it is not worth in doing. Because I am not too far from the state line, and the power company that lobbied that state in doing so is the same one I will have to use, I am going to get (I hope) a grandfather letter from the state I am in, that if any law that is passed in the future that cost me more money for using solar, I will be grandfathered.
So, basically in the state that has that law, it is law, that if power is available to any lived in structure, you are required to be connected to the grid, and even if you produce your own power at levels well beyond your use, you have to pay the power company half of what they calculate you are using.
I advise anyone that is looking to go solar to check local and state laws, and if you decide to put up solar panels, to only put up half of what your energy use actually is, because if you try to zero out your bill, it will not happen. Here, even though I could put up enough panels to zero out my power bill today, I still have to pay a connection fee, however, your credits are calculated out every year, and it is possible to get those fees repaid.
I am sure many people do not know this, and will not be told this by a solar panel installer.

[J.P.M.]

I am looking to buy a small motel with 21 rooms. I am able to buy solar panels at an excellent price. Now it has been calculated out that I would need 20 300 watt solar panels to make the conversion worth doing. The motel will get the following on the roof. 4 hours full sun in the summer, and 8 hours 1/2 sun everyday no less than 90 days per year. - This is not exact, but close. In the winter of course direct sun will decrease to 2 hours per day, and 1/2 sun for 4 hours per day.
Now, all I want to do, is to know the offset of running 21 5,000 BTU window units 16 hours per day 180 days per year. Basically will one 300 watt solar panel offset the cost of electricity to run a single 5000 BTU ac unit a day?

FWIW, you may want to contact the Borrego Springs Motel. They are rather small but have had what looks to be ~ 10 kW array in a pretty much ideal orientation with no shading on their roof for > 5 yrs. or so, although I believe they changed ownership a few yrs. ago. I think the construction workers for the local solar farm holed up there as well. I'm pretty sure they are grid tied and I'm certain they have a pretty heavy A/C load about 6-8 months of the year. Google them for more info/website. I don't know the owners but I drive by it on a regular basis. It looks to be a somewhat going concern.

[JSchnee21]

So, I'm still confused. Why are you rushing? Solar panels themselves are very inexpensive these days and, tariffs aside, get cheaper every year, You're planning to buy a brand new property which is going to have who knows how many other issues which you'll need capital to fix.

Have you thought about:

1) what kinds of inverters you will use?
2) Poco requirements for grid connection
3) engineering drawings, permitting, and grid-tie application requirements
4) location, orientation, and pitch of roof and how this will impact the modelled PV productivity?

Even though I did a lot of research, one key aspect that kind of caught me by surprise is how little solar power panels produce when the solar irradiation is anything but direct, full illumination. The shape of the power curves are essentially Poisson and only when the angle of the sun's rays is nearly directly perpendicular to the array face (in both x and y) is any significant power produced.

I have a 12.2kW array on my ~2000 sq-ft house and it only covers 75-85% of my utilization (I live in NJ). A 20kW or 40kW array is unlikely to make much of a dent in a hotel's electric bill unless you live somewhere cool, clear, and and very sunny with optimal tilt, orientation, and no shade to speak of.

If you're really serious about buying this property and considering solar, step one is get copies of the seller's current electric bills.

[whocares?]

If the hotel exists, and you have historical power consumption data (e.g. kWh, MWh, per month / year) use PVWatts or SolarEdge Site Designer to model the anticipated productivity of different sized solar arrays in your geographic location.

I will assure you I will do so before moving further. Thank you

[whocares?]

FWIW, you may want to contact the Borrego Springs Motel. They are rather small but have had what looks to be ~ 10 kW array in a pretty much ideal orientation with no shading on their roof for > 5 yrs. or so, although I believe they changed ownership a few yrs. ago. I think the construction workers for the local solar farm holed up there as well. I'm pretty sure they are grid tied and I'm certain they have a pretty heavy A/C load about 6-8 months of the year. Google them for more info/website. I don't know the owners but I drive by it on a regular basis. It looks to be a somewhat going concern.

I will look them up and call them. Thank you

[whocares?]

If you're really serious about buying this property and considering solar, step one is get copies of the seller's current electric bills.

You have no need to worry about that. I am getting a copy of all of their utility bills, tax returns etc... for the last three years. The reason I am looking into this now, is because I will be borrowing enough money to cover all that needs to be done to basically renovate the motel. I want to get, while the getting is good.
I am not interested in zeroing out the electric bill, only to cover the usage of A/C. I have other ways to cut down on heating and other electric cost, to include heating hot water, and other energy cost. It would be nice if it was possible to completely zero out the energy bill, however, I do not expect to do that, just cut it by 75 percent or more.

[whocares?]

FWIW, you may want to contact the Borrego Springs Motel. They are rather small but have had what looks to be ~ 10 kW array in a pretty much ideal orientation with no shading on their roof for > 5 yrs. or so, although I believe they changed ownership a few yrs. ago. I think the construction workers for the local solar farm holed up there as well. I'm pretty sure they are grid tied and I'm certain they have a pretty heavy A/C load about 6-8 months of the year. Google them for more info/website. I don't know the owners but I drive by it on a regular basis. It looks to be a somewhat going concern.

I called the motel and spoke to Bonny. They have many more solar panels then you think. With this being said, she told me that her total electric bill for the last year was 77 dollars. Speaking to her, putting up solar panels are most definitely worth the money for a sun baked motel. The motel only has 8 rooms, however.

[J.P.M.]

I will look them up and call them. Thank you

You're welcome. Looking at their website, 72 panels of maybe 250W/ea. (given when they went in 5 -10 yrs. ago) would make it ~ 15 STC kW). If Bonnie mentioned any failures or service problems, that may also be some indication (although probably more anecdotal than documented) of reliability over some time in a climate that's about identical to Phoenix.

As for offsetting only the A/C load, you can calc/est. the heat gain/deg.-hr. for each room, and/or see what happens to the usage in warm weather and compare the two methods.

[J.P.M.]

Two things I made a mistake with. The cost is 10 cents for kW in which I think you assumed? The other is that I can actually get and additional 10 panels installed for anther $5,000. That will take the price up to $25,000.
Now also I have a licensed Master Electrician that is going to do the work, however, with this being said, he told me that I may want to talk to a solar company to install the panels, because they may be more efficient at installing them than him. I did so, but they will not install the panels, they will only install their own panels because of what the say are "Warranty Issues". Of course the cost to install the same exact brand of new solar panels cost twice as much.
Now, my electrician, I have known for more than 10 years, and has installed larger systems than what he is doing for me. I know he can do the job and have it completed within a week. So, really I have more confidence in him, than a solar company.
I have gotten a lot of education in Solar Panels is the past week, and I can tell you now, that for most people they are not a good deal in many states, no matter of the tax breaks etc...
I found out that in a state that borders where I live, the power companies are only allowed to buy back half of what the calculated use of your power is. For instance, if you use 1500kW a month in power, and you have an array that will zero out your usage, by law the power companies are allowed to only pay for 750kW you send to them. So, if your power bill is 500 dollars a month, no matter how big your array is, they will use your power, but still charge you 250 dollars per month. The only way to avoid this is to register your array a power plant, and the administration fees are so high to do that, it is not worth in doing. Because I am not too far from the state line, and the power company that lobbied that state in doing so is the same one I will have to use, I am going to get (I hope) a grandfather letter from the state I am in, that if any law that is passed in the future that cost me more money for using solar, I will be grandfathered.
So, basically in the state that has that law, it is law, that if power is available to any lived in structure, you are required to be connected to the grid, and even if you produce your own power at levels well beyond your use, you have to pay the power company half of what they calculate you are using.
I advise anyone that is looking to go solar to check local and state laws, and if you decide to put up solar panels, to only put up half of what your energy use actually is, because if you try to zero out your bill, it will not happen. Here, even though I could put up enough panels to zero out my power bill today, I still have to pay a connection fee, however, your credits are calculated out every year, and it is possible to get those fees repaid.
I am sure many people do not know this, and will not be told this by a solar panel installer.

Do what you wish, but assuming anything without accurate research, be it solar PV production potential or utility policy now or in the future is a fool's bet, as is relying on hearsay/bloviating from those who probably don't know as much as you do. Assume nothing of such matters and assume that's how much you know until you find out differently. Learn your POCO's policies with respect to net energy metering, their current rate structure(s) - there are likely several plans to choose from - and how their current and future rates and policies affect PV cost effectiveness both now and for the future.