Giving Electric Bills to Solar Company....

[l008com]

I've been fighting with a solar company since I bought a house that came with solar panels. Without going into that whole long story, here's where I am right now:

They've agreed to reasses my account since I am only used about 25% of the power my panels generate. I'm pushing them to just remove my panels outright (we'll see how that goes). But in the mean time they want to see a years worth of electric bills.

Here is my question:
All of my electric bills show the amount of use, but they also show a large account credit. They show the amount I owe coming out of that credit. And they all show "No Payment Due".
I think I want to "photoshop" these Eversource bills to remove all reference to my account credit. The fact that I have an account credit is no business of ScumbagSolar. And seeing it on the bill will likely just confuse the matter. I won't be changing any of the actual usage amounts at all, I'd just be making it look like it was a bill that I paid normally.

Your thoughts on editing the "account credit" references out of my bill? Morally? Legally? Technically? Will Scumbag Solar be able to verify the bills with the electric company? Even if they do, since I'm not changing my usage at all, will it still check out just fine?

[J.P.M.]

Was the PV system leased or purchased by the prior owner, or a PPA? If it's not a purchase, expect them to stick to the terms of the contract or at least attempt to. That will probabl;y mean a big buyout payment from you. Read the contract the prior owner signed.

Scumbag solar probably has the ability to get a pretty good estimate of your billing situation once you give them your usage/draw from the POCO. Among other things, be sure you understand what those bills are saying. A credit against what's owed on a future bill may not, and probably is not the same as a credit paid for excess generation. The credit against future use is usually calculated as some portion of the retail rate you pay the POCO. You will never see a check from the POCO that uses those rates - only a reduction of future bills. An excess generation credit, usually paid at 1X/year trueup is paid at the wholesale cost of the commodity, with that rate usually a lot less than the retail rate.

FWIW, and a bit off topic, your situation is a good example of another reason to not put much value in an exiting PV system when buying a house. Also a good example of how energy usage is more f(occupants' use patterns) than the size of the home.

[peakbagger]

Unless venting your problems on a public forum makes you feel better, you either have to understand the contract you accepted when you bought the house or hire someone who does.

Generally your electric billing records are under your control and unless the contract has language that gives the solar company the rights to access it you need to give permission to the power company to do so.

If you have not done so its time to drag out the paperwork you signed when you bought your house and see what you actually signed. Its likely that a smart real estate agent (who worked for the seller) realized that the solar contract was a liability to the sale and hoped you wouldn't do your due diligence. If you did hire independent counsel to review the sale and signing then its time to talk with them on why they didnt point out and explain what long term responsibilities you and the solar firm have Ultimately you signed something to accept a contract and expect that the solar firm has remedies if you try to violate the terms.

Do not waste your time calling the solar firm until you understand the contract and your outs. You are behind the eightball in this unless the solar firm really dropped the ball (highly unlikely). I suspect its going to come down to you writing them a large check to pay an inflated cost of an installation to get out of the contract possibly with the panels removed, sucking up the current situation or selling the house to some other person who doesnt read the contract. Its likely that if you try to remove the panels you will end up paying the company some substantial penalty. If you refuse to do so they will slap a lien on the house and unless you bought it for cash its likely the mortgage company will call you up eventually and say you are in default of the mortgage as you allows liens to be slapped on it.

[l008com]

You guys are really going out of your way to answer the questions i didn't ask while not answering the one I did.

[vdirico]

You guys are really going out of your way to answer the questions i didn't ask while not answering the one I did.

I'm not an expert on any of this, I do own a system, also in the land of massholes

I tell everyone I talk with to buy their own system, I know that doesn't help you.

I would print out the bills then black sharpie over any info you don't want to share.

-----

Another thought: can you convert a room or two (or maybe even a whole level) to use electric heat?

Good luck.

Vinny

[J.P.M.]

You guys are really going out of your way to answer the questions i didn't ask while not answering the one I did.

Your questions or what looks to me to be a request for opinions betrays your ignorance of your situation.

It looks to me like you're getting some questions answered that needed asking a long time ago, but for unknown reasons weren't (asked).

And, special bonus: It's all free around here and from folks with no skin in the game, but with maybe a bit more experience than you in such matters.

This may be one of the few places where you actually do get more than you paid for once in a while.

FWIW, I'm with Peakbagger on this one.

Take what you want of opinion around here. Scrap the rest.

Or, pay some legal counsel for advice you may like better.

In the meantime, get informed. NOMB or concern, but it looks to me like you missed the due diligence part. More Caveat Emptor.

[bcroe]

Another thought: can you convert a room or two (or maybe even a whole level) to use electric heat?
Good luck. Vinny

Your local HVAC outfit can evaluate that. The least energy efficient way might be electric
baseboard heaters. The most efficient might be mini split heat pumps, which also air cond.
Bruce Roe

[peakbagger]

BY the way, I did answer your question you just apparently have reading comprehension problem.

[l008com]

BY the way, I did answer your question you just apparently have reading comprehension problem.

The question you answered seems to be "I don't like my solar panels, what should I do???", where my specific question is about editing my electric bills before I send them to dingbat-solar so as to not show that I have an account credit with the electric company.

[J.P.M.]

The question you answered seems to be "I don't like my solar panels, what should I do???", where my specific question is about editing my electric bills before I send them to vivint so as to not show that I have an account credit with the electric company.

Ahh ! Another Vivant mess. Didn't know it was that bad.

[SunEagle]

The question you answered seems to be "I don't like my solar panels, what should I do???", where my specific question is about editing my electric bills before I send them to vivint so as to not show that I have an account credit with the electric company.

What you are suggesting can be considered "fraud" and illegal in most states. You may just have to live with the contract you accepted with your solar company and your POCO.

[l008com]

What you are suggesting can be considered "fraud" and illegal in most states.

IS it fraud though? I'm not talking about changing the actual amount of the bills. I'm just trying to hide the fact that it's being paid out of an account credit rather than directly with a check. The part that is none of their business. I'm not changing any of the meaningful information in any way.

[azdave]

Seems logical to me to just black out what they don't need to see. Don't photoshop it and change the numbers. Simply use a sharpie to redact the info and then send a copy of it so they can't possibly see the info you have hidden. I'd black out the account number and meter number too. Just share your name and service address along with readings.

[SunEagle]

IS it fraud though? I'm not talking about changing the actual amount of the bills. I'm just trying to hide the fact that it's being paid out of an account credit rather than directly with a check. The part that is none of their business. I'm not changing any of the meaningful information in any way.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue. But what is "their business" or not depends on the contract between you and them.

IMO not providing information that is asked for or is to be used, as stated in the contract, is a move to hide information which can be construed as fraud. Better check the contract to see what you can or can not do.

If they don't need the info then "blacking it out" with a marker as azdave suggested should work. But be prepared to answer their questions if they feel they deserve the data you are withholding from them.

[foo1bar]

If they don't need the info then "blacking it out" with a marker as azdave suggested should work. But be prepared to answer their questions if they feel they deserve the data you are withholding from them.

If it were me, I'd make a photocopy of the bill(s) - then use whiteout to remove the parts I don't want to share (ex. including account #, meter #), then photocopy/scan that.
I'd use the whiteout correction tape (not the liquid) - it works well for covering such things. I think it's better than a magic marker since the text can often still be read after a swipe with a magic marker. And it doesn't draw attention to itself as much as a big black mark does.

And to the OP - yes - I think it could be fraud if you provide them with false numbers. Redacting information is not the same thing though.
Frankly, I don't know if I'd give them even a redacted bill.
I would make sure I completely understood what my production was, and how it was affecting my billing from the POCO.
And make sure I understood the contract I have with Vivant (if I have one).