Grid tie in with Solar Panels and Off Grid with Solar Panels and Diesel gen.

[bcroe]

My wife wants to limit petroleum coming onto our property, so no kerosene lanterns. We heat with wood and solar-thermal.

The last city we lived in was in Connecticut, the city has it's own power grid isolated from the state power grid, and the city owns it's own NG power plant. We were living there in 2003 when there was a big blackout for the Northeast. We saw no interruption in power for our home.

I suppose burning wood is a closed cycle and GREEN. There seems to be a firewood surplus in my
area. But the goal here is to just set a thermostat and do little more, without importing any energy in
the process.

With the Byron Nuke in sight of the property, power failures amount to a tree or texting motorist damaging
the local line for a short time. I keep hearing about un interrupted power, but I am very happy to just
survive the outage without anything damaged. Bruce Roe

[Tango Zulu]

Yes, that is possible.

I have a neighbor who runs a windmill, solar panels, and a generator. He is a welder by trade, any time that he starts welding he runs his generator. [he also makes a lot of iron art work].

So he can run any combination of those 3 items without batteries? Can you elaborate how?

[organic farmer]

So he can run any combination of those 3 items without batteries? Can you elaborate how?

Peter has batteries but his bank is really small. By combining the windmill with his solar panels, he is left with a much smaller window of when there is no power. As a result, he does not need to focus on the idea of his batteries powering his home for any extended period. His batteries are in place, only to complete the circuit.

A couple years ago, one night his toilet ran all night. Which caused his well pump to run and to drain his battery completely to a zero State-Of-Charge. With his batteries at zero, they froze solid and ruptured their plastic casings.

It taught him to pay close attention to when his toilet is running.

[ButchDeal]

So he can run any combination of those 3 items without batteries? Can you elaborate how?

Peter has batteries but his bank is really small. .

The answer is he can NOT run an off grid solar system without batteries, with generator (or without generator).

[J.P.M.]

Peter has batteries but his bank is really small. By combining the windmill with his solar panels, he is left with a much smaller window of when there is no power. As a result, he does not need to focus on the idea of his batteries powering his home for any extended period. His batteries are in place, only to complete the circuit.

A couple years ago, one night his toilet ran all night. Which caused his well pump to run and to drain his battery completely to a zero State-Of-Charge. With his batteries at zero, they froze solid and ruptured their plastic casings.

It taught him to pay close attention to when his toilet is running.

Another near perfect if anecdotal example of why lifestyles like Peter's and probably yours are beyond comprehension much less reality for most folks, at least those in the U.S. anyway.

[Tango Zulu]

The answer is he can NOT run an off grid solar system without batteries, with generator (or without generator).

Do you foresee that at some point in the next few years or so that will change? I know on larger scales it can be done but not sure how hard it is for that technology to be scaled down.

[SunEagle]

Do you foresee that at some point in the next few years or so that will change? I know on larger scales it can be done but not sure how hard it is for that technology to be scaled down.

I seriously doubt that grid tie inverters for the home use will ever provide full power without the grid working.

I am not sure what you mean by "larger scale" being able to work without the grid. As of now all grid tie inverters will shut down if the grid is not working.

For that matter the inverters will shut down if the frequency of the grid differs a lot from the inverter frequency. All of that is there to protect the line men from getting killed from back feeding power from a Co Generator no matter how small or how big it is.

[jflorey2]

Do you foresee that at some point in the next few years or so that will change? I know on larger scales it can be done but not sure how hard it is for that technology to be scaled down.

Not without storage.

However, in the near future I do see very small (=cheap) battery systems enabling the sort of functionality you describe. It can be done today with a hybrid system and a small battery system. It's not recommended, but inverter/chargers like the Radian can be throttled back to accommodate small battery packs, and charge controllers like the Classic+Wizbang can be used to support high solar power levels with small batteries.

On the horizon is the Enphase IQ8+ system, which will allow small (1kwhr) batteries to be attached. This isn't enough for any sort of serious off-grid living, but does provide the sort of buffering that allows you to start up larger devices when power is available, and run at higher powers in backup mode. The Outback Skybox will also (per the reps I've talked to) support very small battery sizes. Note that small batteries make even less sense economically than larger batteries because their $/kwhr is even worse. But for a solar user who absolutely, positively must have backup when the grid goes out, it's a cheap way of providing a small amount of storage for less money. That small amount of storage will also allow much higher power levels when the sun is out.

[ButchDeal]

Do you foresee that at some point in the next few years or so that will change? I know on larger scales it can be done but not sure how hard it is for that technology to be scaled down.

Nope.

People toute Enphase IQ8 system etc, but that is not rated for off grid, just occasional use in isolation.
If you want to be off grid, you really need a battery.
What do you do not need is a grid tie inverter, get a bimodal inverter, a battery, and a generator and you are set.

[Tango Zulu]

Thanks.
But I don't really need to be off grid. My priorities are system resilience for contingencies, cost savings, and lastly reduction of noise and air pollution (not in a general way but isolated to my house when running a generator) .
For the rare, even if sometimes prolonged, outages we have in SEFL due to Hurricanes it just doesn't make financial sense to use a battery I think.
Regrettably it appears it really does make more sense to just use a grid tie inverter and run the diesel 24/7 when the juice is out. .

[J.P.M.]

Thanks.
But I don't really need to be off grid. My priorities are system resilience for contingencies, cost savings, and lastly reduction of noise and air pollution (not in a general way but isolated to my house when running a generator) .
For the rare, even if sometimes prolonged, outages we have in SEFL due to Hurricanes it just doesn't make financial sense to use a battery I think.
Regrettably it appears it really does make more sense to just use a grid tie inverter and run the diesel 24/7 when the juice is out. .

Welcome to the forum of few(er) illusions. A lot of uninformed folks show up here with an idea that started with uninformed, wishful thinking and then, nurtured by what's usually less than honest to the point of misinformation from the cabal of peddlers and their unknowing, tree hugger shills and greenwash media, come here expecting to have their unrealistic ideas confirmed. When they don't get that, they often vent their spleen or go into denial rather than simply saying thank you for a dose of reality from folks with mostly no skin in the game and a fair amount of experience.

Having what is, in effect, an off grid capable system costs more in terms of toil and treasure than most folks have a clue about.

[Sunking]

The answer is he can NOT run an off grid solar system without batteries, with generator (or without generator).

you are wasting your breath Butch, neither ewants to hear reality or even know what reality is.

[Sunking]

Regrettably it appears it really does make more sense to just use a grid tie inverter and run the diesel 24/7 when the juice is out. .

I told you that in post 5.

[Tango Zulu]

I told you that a long time ago.

Your sense of self righteousness is almost as bad as my wife's.
And please don't come back and tell me I need to listen to my wife more often. Don't be a vagina.

[Sunking]

Your sense of self righteousness is almost as bad as my wife's.
And please don't come back and tell me I need to listen to my wife more often.

At least you can shoot your wife and put her out of your misery.

Bottom line what you want to do is pay 5 to 10 more for electricity and become a very heavy polluter. That is what you are asking for. What would wifey do with you if she knew what you wanted to really do?