SolarEdge optimizer hell!

[Mike90250]

Vinny, if you don't like it, you can't have any.

You are getting (most likely) the best, honest advice from at least 2 installers and a third, very knowledgeable solar enthusiast.

Other forums may hold your hand and coddle you, and make you feel good. We have real business to do, so you are getting the plain unvarnished truth.

[ButchDeal]

- Can I have the optimizers removed? Will I just lose panel by panel reporting? Or?

- is it possible to leave a defective optimizer up there or does it prevent the panel from producing? Or could it vary?

You can not remove the optimizers, the inverter will not work without them
you can leave a defective one but it will not priduce power.
your installer is likely incompetent.

[solarix]

In the SolarEdge distributed architecture, the optimizers are absolutely part of the system and have to work for to get any power out of a PV panel. Sometimes they fail just in the user interface and keep on producing power, but usually they just die and no power. You need to have them replaced. To switch to any other inverter, you will have to remove all the optimizers, rewire the whole array - pretty much start over. On a regular string inverter, you can almost always just swap in any other string inverter of the appropriate size. I've had several of the SolarEdge inverters fail as well, twice with internal explosions resulting nasty goo flowing out the bottom of the case. Really embarrassing for the customer to see...

Also just replaced a failed eight year old Fronius inverter this week. Pretty hefty lightning strike i think. Could see in the lower compartment where the DC negative feed wire was touching a little jumper wire that happened to be located right there and the current arced right through the insulation on both and blew up something internally. Fronius refused to cover it under warranty of course.

[silversaver]

So is it better to have fewer failure points to start with or be able to identify which of that greater number of potential failure points have actually succumbed ?

BTW, welcome back. How's your array doing ?

I'll prefer a more simple system, it is just a power generator.

My system is running normal after 2 inverter replacement due to human error.

[silversaver]

Personally, I'd prefer a reliable system that has very basic reporting than an unreliable system with a very cool color graphical user interface.

But to each their own. I have an ancient Sunpower system (with big transformer based inverters) that's been working great for 11 years now.

Agree. I only look at monitoring screen just to make sure system is still running.

[bcroe]

This is my energy monitor serving 40 years here. The PoCo gave it to me after putting in a
smart meter, and I made it bi directional by defeating the reversing gear. Does 34 rpm when
the sun shines. The PV simple strings just work, 5 years. KISS

If I need more info, I can look at the inverters or use my clamp on DC meter. Bruce Roe

BiDirMtr.JPG

[GRickard]

Have you tried sending the optimizers back to SE to see why they are failing? There may be a root cause that can be identified with an autopsy on the victem.

Greg

[solardreamer]

Just curious, is there any string inverter that offers panel level monitoring?

It seems too convenient to blame SolarEdge failures on installers when there seem to be more failures than other optimizer/microinverters. Perhaps the design is not as robust or installer training certification is not as strong. SolarEdge has to take some responsibility for installers just as car manufactures and dealers.

[ButchDeal]

Just curious, is there any string inverter that offers panel level monitoring?

It seems too convenient to blame SolarEdge failures on installers when there seem to be more failures than other optimizer/microinverters. Perhaps the design is not as robust or installer training certification is not as strong. SolarEdge has to take some responsibility for installers just as car manufactures and dealers.

There absolutely is not more failures with SolarEdge than other optimizers or micros. SolarEdge is the largest residential inverter seller for last few years now and has had very few problems.

I have had to deal with a LOT of different installers and there quite frankly are a lot of idiot installers out there. We give them full plans and they still would install things differently, one put a whole array on the north slope instead of the south slope, but my point is nearly ALL of our failures with SolarEdge and a few non-solaredge inverters have been installer related.
We had two flooded inverters because the installer put the conduit on the side instead of the bottom
multiple strings of incorrect length. For some reason some installers would just make a string for EACH roof area, regardless of number of PV modules. I have personally chewed out several Installers for doing strings of < 8 and one for a string of 30 PV modules (way out of spec).

And the really hard thing to understand is that the SolarEdge string requirements are so much simpler than non-optimizer system and on top of that we GAVE them the plan with string layout information.

As for installer training / certification, that is just NABCEP which is generic and not equipment specific. however most installers have a few people that are certified and those people are not on all installs. A solar Installer is not the same as a car Dealer. They are more like construction workers, putting in a product. Yes they should (and most do) know the proper way to put it in, but when you hire the lowest bidder, you get what you pay for. Our company position is that we were customer advocates, the customer deals with us and we deal with the installer. But you wouldn't expect LG or GE to be responsible for a plumber that incorrectly installs one of their dishwashers would you? no of course not. The plumber should know how to do it or read the manual.

As for robust, that is a part of the problem. SolarEdge systems are very robust and the system will "work" often when installed incorrectly. Lazy installers "assume" everything is working, some don't even bother to set up the monitorring. We required them to either set it up and/or to send me the documentation and access. Usually I set up monitoring with the documents they sent to me and check with photos. This is where I find installs on north face instead of south face, incorrect strings, etc. and you can bet your A$$ they are back out there fixing that crap or they are not paid. If the mistake is bad or happens more than the one time, they get blackballed from our list of installers.

The things we find is not limited to strings or electrical, conduit supported by wooden blocks, or no support, flashing mounts not staggered, zip ties used to hold wiring rather than the wire clips that we sent them, foot prints on PV modules (big no no in our book).

again MOST installers are very good, but it only takes a few bad ones to ruin a dozen good installs reputations in an area.

[jflorey2]

Just curious, is there any string inverter that offers panel level monitoring?

You can take any string inverter and add Tigo optimizers to the array. But that's another $50 a panel, which increases your cost about 16 cents a watt. Not worth it IMO if you don't have shading issues.

[vdirico]

Have you tried sending the optimizers back to SE to see why they are failing? There may be a root cause that can be identified with an autopsy on the victem.

Greg

hi, I guess the solar vendor is doing that, they are getting new/free optimizers from SolarEdge. My solar vendor (SunBug in Mass.) says the SolarEdge optimizers have been "rock solid" for them, except on my roof. #3 has been replaced, a fourth failure will be extra painful!!!

Also, I reached out to SolarEdge via their website, almost 2 weeks ago, the clowns haven't responded!

thanks

Vinny

[vdirico]

SolarEdge has to take some responsibility for installers just as car manufactures and dealers.

I reached out to SolarEdge via their website, almost 2 weeks ago, the clowns haven't responded!

Vinny

[J.P.M.]

There absolutely is not more failures with SolarEdge than other optimizers or micros. SolarEdge is the largest residential inverter seller for last few years now and has had very few problems.

I have had to deal with a LOT of different installers and there quite frankly are a lot of idiot installers out there. We give them full plans and they still would install things differently, one put a whole array on the north slope instead of the south slope, but my point is nearly ALL of our failures with SolarEdge and a few non-solaredge inverters have been installer related.
We had two flooded inverters because the installer put the conduit on the side instead of the bottom
multiple strings of incorrect length. For some reason some installers would just make a string for EACH roof area, regardless of number of PV modules. I have personally chewed out several Installers for doing strings of < 8 and one for a string of 30 PV modules (way out of spec).

And the really hard thing to understand is that the SolarEdge string requirements are so much simpler than non-optimizer system and on top of that we GAVE them the plan with string layout information.

As for installer training / certification, that is just NABCEP which is generic and not equipment specific. however most installers have a few people that are certified and those people are not on all installs. A solar Installer is not the same as a car Dealer. They are more like construction workers, putting in a product. Yes they should (and most do) know the proper way to put it in, but when you hire the lowest bidder, you get what you pay for. Our company position is that we were customer advocates, the customer deals with us and we deal with the installer. But you wouldn't expect LG or GE to be responsible for a plumber that incorrectly installs one of their dishwashers would you? no of course not. The plumber should know how to do it or read the manual.

As for robust, that is a part of the problem. SolarEdge systems are very robust and the system will "work" often when installed incorrectly. Lazy installers "assume" everything is working, some don't even bother to set up the monitorring. We required them to either set it up and/or to send me the documentation and access. Usually I set up monitoring with the documents they sent to me and check with photos. This is where I find installs on north face instead of south face, incorrect strings, etc. and you can bet your A$$ they are back out there fixing that crap or they are not paid. If the mistake is bad or happens more than the one time, they get blackballed from our list of installers.

The things we find is not limited to strings or electrical, conduit supported by wooden blocks, or no support, flashing mounts not staggered, zip ties used to hold wiring rather than the wire clips that we sent them, foot prints on PV modules (big no no in our book).

again MOST installers are very good, but it only takes a few bad ones to ruin a dozen good installs reputations in an area.

Butch: Not picking on you, but after an engineering career that included a fair amount of project engineering and project management, a couple of thoughts. Take them for what they're worth to you, if anything.

1.) The easiest way to avoid problems with subs is to know their capabilities and limitations, and only hire those subs who can meet your requirements. Know who you hire and their limitations or live with the results. Maybe redoubling efforts in that area would improve sub contractor quality.

2.) The customer only sees "Solar Edge" on the equipment and the contract they signed. Fair or not, the customer cares not a whit about what might be correctly or incorrectly seen as your outfit's inability to hire competent people, or much worse, they may think your outfit doesn't care enough about its customers to hire competent people. Your outfit and it's reputation are on the hook and on the line, not the sub's.

3.) Current and real time job Q.C. and supervision are better, both in long term costs and maintenance of a reputation than after the fact notification of problems by the customer. Better real time job supervision/inspection might help.

While I absolutely believe the horror stories you relate, and appreciate a few bad actors can create problems out of all proportion to their numbers, and also intimately understanding that anything can happen, with the dumbest, laziest stuff seeming to have the highest probability of happening - seen lots of it, your above post does have the look of sour grapes about it.

Respectfully and sincerely,

J.P.M.

[ButchDeal]

Butch: Not picking on you, but after an engineering career that included a fair amount of project engineering and project management, a couple of thoughts. Take them for what they're worth to you, if anything.

1.) The easiest way to avoid problems with subs is to know their capabilities and limitations, and only hire those subs who can meet your requirements. Know who you hire and their limitations or live with the results. Maybe redoubling efforts in that area would improve sub contractor quality.

2.) The customer only sees "Solar Edge" on the equipment and the contract they signed. Fair or not, the customer cares not a whit about what might be correctly or incorrectly seen as your outfit's inability to hire competent people, or much worse, they may think your outfit doesn't care enough about its customers to hire competent people. Your outfit and it's reputation are on the hook and on the line, not the sub's.

3.) Current and real time job Q.C. and supervision are better, both in long term costs and maintenance of a reputation than after the fact notification of problems by the customer. Better real time job supervision/inspection might help.

While I absolutely believe the horror stories you relate, and appreciate a few bad actors can create problems out of all proportion to their numbers, and also intimately understanding that anything can happen, with the dumbest, laziest stuff seeming to have the highest probability of happening - seen lots of it, your above post does have the look of sour grapes about it.

Respectfully and sincerely,

J.P.M.

1) not really subs in the traditional since since they are the actual contractor, a legal requirement for each state. As you may know finding a solar installer in some part of the US are difficult, and not having anyone on site means we are totally remote managing things.

2) In our case the customer only sees our company name. Thats why we go to a great deal of effort to correct all problems, most only see the PV module manufacturers name though they do see SolarEdge monitoring, they don't often put things together with that.

3) We handle the monitoring not the customer, and almost all the problems I mentioned were noticed well before any customer did or would. Most were fixed within days of completion or turn on.

not really sour grapes but intended to show how installers make mistakes. We have many many installers (national) and all that we use regularly are good, some are great.

[J.P.M.]

1) not really subs in the traditional since since they are the actual contractor, a legal requirement for each state. As you may know finding a solar installer in some part of the US are difficult, and not having anyone on site means we are totally remote managing things.

2) In our case the customer only sees our company name. Thats why we go to a great deal of effort to correct all problems, most only see the PV module manufacturers name though they do see SolarEdge monitoring, they don't often put things together with that.

3) We handle the monitoring not the customer, and almost all the problems I mentioned were noticed well before any customer did or would. Most were fixed within days of completion or turn on.

not really sour grapes but intended to show how installers make mistakes. We have many many installers (national) and all that we use regularly are good, some are great.

My only experience with solar vendors (about 20 or so and counting) comes from getting them to respond to my questions with respect to my HOA work. I didn't mean to mislead you with respect to some of my work history, but I've never been paid to do anything involving engineering or supervision of solar energy projects - that work involved mostly conventional steam boiler/power systems and other energy mgmt. system design/engineering for power plants, chem. plants and refineries. Lots of stories not unlike yours.

Nor did I mean to imply you were not aware of what I wrote. FWIW, I believe we're mostly on the same page in these matters. You just sounded a bit defensive is all. But I'd still think being a bit more selective about subs with better supervision of them could pay dividends.

Respectfully,