New Neighborhood Solar Installations

[bcroe]

Besides the Megawatt proposals popping up around here, some cos have been selling some
household systems to my neighbors. Apparently there are some powerful new incentives,
which I am not familiar with. Some have come over to see how mine works before buying
their own.

Today I went 3 houses west to see a couple of these brand new systems. One was the typical
roof mount, on a big shed. The most interesting was a 2 week old ground mount of 32 panels,
10KW. It used a Fronius Primas, newer than mine.

I will get back for a picture. They laid what looked like felt on the ground, to keep the grass
down I guess. Rows of 5 landscape panels of 72 cells were held less than a foot off the
ground by an aluminum bracket at the S edge of each panel. Another bracket held the N
edge up to about 20 degrees, dropped down under a few cement blocks, and went back
to the next row. The array wiring could be called sort of random. No room to walk between
or do snow work.

I looked at the inverter AC wiring in the big shed. 60A breaker in a 100A box. Actually I
saw other boxes in the shed, none had had a front cover in place for a while. Oh well.
Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

Bruce:

I'm quite certain you would be free with your time and information, and I'm just as or more certain those things would be invaluable to the vendors' marks - but not now. Too late.

Besides, contractors don't what owners to hear/see such things because the more a customer knows, the worse it is for profits, while users, after a purchase and installation that was probably driven more by panic running from high electric bills or some effort to "get even" with the POCO than by reason, won't appreciate you as a resource, probably/perhaps due to embarrassment - will find some justification for their predicament ridiculing you and your efforts in some way, thus making you irrelevant - with them off the hook for not having used their heads - at least in their own minds.

One of the prices you pay for a bit of eccentricity. Been there, done that, live with a bit of it myself. Just lucky I guess.

Leadership is a lonely place.

Anyhow, some folks you just can't reach.

And, who knows ? Maybe it'll all work out fine for your neighbors - at least in their eyes and minds.

I'd file this thread away and take a look at it over the winter after you see how the arrays are doing. Like revenge, quiet satisfaction is a meal best eaten cold.

[SunEagle]

Looking forward to seeing those arrays. G Earth is still in the past with pictures from April 2017 so they don't even show your new array.

[bcroe]

Today I went 3 houses west to see a couple of these brand new systems. One was the typical
roof mount, on a big shed. The most interesting was a 2 week old ground mount of 32 panels,
10KW.

I will get back for a picture. They laid what looked like felt on the ground, to keep the grass
down I guess. Rows of 5 landscape panels of 72 cells were held less than a foot off the
ground by an aluminum bracket at the S edge of each panel. Another bracket held the N
edge up to about 20 degrees, dropped down under a few cement blocks, and went back
to the next row. The array wiring could be called sort of random. No room to walk between
or do snow work.

I looked at the inverter AC wiring in the big shed. 60A breaker in a 100A box. Actually I
saw other boxes in the shed, none had had a front cover in place for a while. Oh well.
Bruce Roe

RC10KW1.JPG

RC10KW2.JPGRC10KW3.JPGRC10KW5.JPG

[ButchDeal]

This is a most embarrassing install, can't believe the company even left a sign or that it passed any inspection with such poor wire management.
So much wrong with it.

[J.P.M.]

Well, if that array survives a decent wind (??) until the snow flies, it'll be buried until spring. Hope someone knows to put fire hydrant flags at the corners.

Bruce: Do you consider those neighbors to be friends ? Just wonderin'.

Similar to what Butch writes, so much wrong on a simple visual, Makes one wonder WTF ? Inspection ? Design review/approval ? If there's an AHJ signoff on that somewhere, heaven help you all.

[bcroe]

Actually a pretty decent neighbor, have worked on some projects together. He did come over and see
my snow resistant array before hand, and made a decision without my help. Upon seeing it I did
mention snow and some other details.

My universal experience is that PV installers don't try to show how it will look when finished, even
when asked. Bruce Roe

[bcroe]

This is a most embarrassing install, can't believe the company even left a sign or
that it passed any inspection with such poor wire management. So much wrong with it.

I hope you like this one better, finished it today. Bruce Roe


TreTerm1.JPG

[ButchDeal]

I hope you like this one better, finished it today. Bruce Roe


TreTerm1.JPG

looks pretty solid. What is that red thing at the other end of the array?

lets see just a few differences.

This array is solidly attached to the ground and raised up so it will not get shadows from the ground, or other parts of the array.
cables are neatly and solidly attached to the structure as well as buried in conduit.
The structure seems to be aligned with a string or laser as well.

[azdave]

looks pretty solid. What is that red thing at the other end of the array?

Small hand cranked winch to tilt the array?

[bcroe]

That is a red winch near the center of the 66' length. It takes very little force to change the tilt, but the
winch is convenient for holding the twice a year tilt change while the 6 lower braces are attached. The
ground slopes at a 10% grade along the length. The array follows the ground, so a level doesn't work,
but my laser does. The AC outlet uses direct burial 12-2 back to the building. Bruce Roe

[citabria]

So, the neighboring array has the wires just laying on the ground, not even in a loom? How much snow/ice do you get there? I can see someone going out with a steel ice scraper and cutting those wires the first time they want to sweep the panels clean. And no engineer would have approved a wind loading with stacked loose bricks. I feel sorry for the owner when they have to shell out money for future problems. Also, I love small touches you made on your array.

[bcroe]

So, the neighboring array has the wires just laying on the ground, not even in a loom? How much snow/ice do you get there? I can see someone going out with a steel ice scraper and cutting those wires the first time they want to sweep the panels clean. And no engineer would have approved a wind loading with stacked loose bricks. I feel sorry for the owner when they have to shell out money for future problems. Also, I love small touches you made on your array.

Snow varies greatly from year to year here. I suggested that basically his array would be non productive
after the first snow fall, I don't see practically getting in there to move snow, and no place close to put it.
Given the short days and the level of winter clouding, an argument could be made that this is a reasonable
tradeoff. One recent Dec we didn't see the sun for 27 days in a row. Not MY tradeoff. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

Snow varies greatly from year to year here. I suggested that basically his array would be non productive
after the first snow fall, I don't see practically getting in there to move snow, and no place close to put it.
Given the short days and the level of winter clouding, an argument could be made that this is a reasonable
tradeoff. One recent Dec we didn't see the sun for 27 days in a row. Not MY tradeoff. Bruce Roe

Maybe the installed heat trace wire in the slab to keep the snow from accumulating.

[azdave]

Maybe they installed heat trace wire in the slab to keep the snow from accumulating.

Can one heat trace carpet?