Do I need Envoy for IQ 7's?

[MetaPhysic]

The install guides are unclear. I really don't want the extra expense and hassle of Envoy. Will the IQ 7's work without it?

[JSchnee21]

Hi MetaPhysic,

Here's the install guide (which it sounds like you already saw)
http(colon slash slash)ressupply.com/documents/enphase/IQ7_Series_Microinverter_Quick_Install_Guide.pdf

I do not believe the Envoy is technically required for the Microinverters to operate -- they should (or at least the used to) turn on automatically based on the presence of the DC voltage coming from the attached panel. BUT, are you serious? One of the key benefits of micros and optimizers is the ability to monitor the performance of each panel. It's very useful for troubleshooting and to monitor system production.

The envoy is only a few hundred dollars ($400-600) depending on where you purchase it from. So in the context of an entire PV system (which is usually $10,000-40,000) the cost of this one item is not usually a concern.

I have seen a number of complaints that the Envoys tend to die prematurely however. So if you decide to get one, expect that it may fail within 3-5 years. Of course, some of your micros may have also failed within this time frame. The reliability of Enphase micros seems to be improving in general, but, it's hard to tell as they keep revising the product every year or so.

[jgd108]

Yeah, I was just checking on my combiner model no. with my vendor and I did a quick Google search, it's roughly the exact same price as the Envoy alone.. my understanding is you need the Combiner before feeding into the main panel so $500 either way!

[maxbraketorque]

I know that APsystems issues firmware updates to their microinverters using their monitoring hardware. If the same is true for Enphase, then that is another reason to go with the Envoy.

[MetaPhysic]

And the answer is:
Yes. I have installed 12 IQ7s in series on one breaker without an Envoy. I get good production and have zero problems.

FYI I'm not understanding the response about combiners, which are DC. I have AC coming off my IQ7s.

[PVAndy]

And the answer is:
Yes. I have installed 12 IQ7s in series on one breaker without an Envoy. I get good production and have zero problems.

FYI I'm not understanding the response about combiners, which are DC. I have AC coming off my IQ7s.

I don't believe Enphase will honor a warranty without an Envoy

[MetaPhysic]

I don't believe Enphase will honor a warranty without an Envoy

Thanks, I guess, but I have talked them several times on the phone and they never mentioned anything about voided warranties. I don't see any problem with damage or safety: all the IQ7 needs to do is read line voltage.

If you know of something for real please quote it.

[solardreamer]

And the answer is:
Yes. I have installed 12 IQ7s in series on one breaker without an Envoy. I get good production and have zero problems.

FYI I'm not understanding the response about combiners, which are DC. I have AC coming off my IQ7s.

Enphase uses AC combiner to combine multiple microinverter branches to connect to breaker in main panel. Is your system connected to the utility grid? If so, you need Envoy to be compliant with utility grid interconnection requirements at least in the US.

[sdold]

Enphase uses AC combiner to combine multiple microinverter branches to connect to breaker in main panel. Is your system connected to the utility grid? If so, you need Envoy to be compliant with utility grid interconnection requirements at least in the US.

Why is the Envoy required, is this something new? I ran my M215 system for a while without an Envoy with no problems and it never occurred to me that there was any reason the POCO would care, since all it seemed to do for me was allow monitoring and the option of re-configuring certain parameters, which I never needed to do.

[solardreamer]

Why is the Envoy required, is this something new? I ran my M215 system for a while without an Envoy with no problems and it never occurred to me that there was any reason the POCO would care, since all it seemed to do for me was allow monitoring and the option of re-configuring certain parameters, which I never needed to do.

I think it started last year. It's part of the CA rule 21 telemetry requirements.

The inverters will work regardless.

[sdold]

I think it started last year. It's part of the CA rule 21 telemetry requirements.

The inverters will work regardless.

Makes sense, good info, thanks.

[MetaPhysic]

Enphase uses AC combiner to combine multiple microinverter branches to connect to breaker in main panel. Is your system connected to the utility grid? If so, you need Envoy to be compliant with utility grid interconnection requirements at least in the US.

I am disappointed and amazed at all this weirdness. This is "Makes sense, good info" only if you all will get a good laugh when I have to buy additional equipment ($), start another inspection ($), pay for NEM processing ($) and probably pay for a contractor to install it ($), for no good reason.

- I do not have multiple "branches" (strings), so like I said, I do not need or have a combiner (as far as I can tell, Enphase's "Combiner" is little more than a subpanel, and I see no reason that multiple strings need to be run through any "combiner")
- "you need Envoy" MAY be true for NEW installs now, but it was not when it was reviewed and approved by a major contractor, two agencies, installed and inspected
- "utiity interconnection requirements at least in the US" is not CA 21 - quote US code if you are not blowing smoke, especially where it says my approved panels are no longer "compliant"

I hope this will not be another weird "I got the last word" contests.

I would also hope that anyone that wants to get into PV does not read solardreamer's posts because they are full of mis-disinformation. I would not be surprised if he/she/it worked for PG&E from some underdeveloped part of the world to scare people away from solar.

[solardreamer]

I am disappointed and amazed at all this weirdness. This is "Makes sense, good info" only if you all will get a good laugh when I have to buy additional equipment ($), start another inspection ($), pay for NEM processing ($) and probably pay for a contractor to install it ($), for no good reason.

- I do not have multiple branches, so like I said, I do not need or have a combiner (as far as I can tell, Enphase's "Combiner" is little more than a subpanel, and I see no reason that multiple strings need to be run through any "combiner")
- "you need Envoy" MAY be true now, but it was not when it was reviewed and approved by two agencies, installed and inspected
- "utiity interconnection requirements at least in the US" is not CA 21 - quote US code if you are not blowing smoke, especially where it says my approved panels are no longer "compliant"

I hope this will not be another weird "I got the last word" contests.

I would also hope that anyone that wants to get into PV does not read solardreamer's posts because they are full of mis-disinformation. I would not be surprised if he/she/it worked for PG&E from some underdeveloped part of the world to scare people away from solar.

Relax. It wasn't clear that your system was already inspected and approved and the new rules are not retroactive.

[Ampster]

Yeah, I was just checking on my combiner model no. with my vendor and I did a quick Google search, it's roughly the exact same price as the Envoy alone.. my understanding is you need the Combiner before feeding into the main panel so $500 either way!

Most of those combiners include the Envoy. It is a convenient place to put it.
The combiner is not required in order to feed into the main panel. One could use two 20 Amp breakers but the combiner puts that and the Envoy in a nice tidy package. As others have mentioned the Envoy may be required or firmware updates and possibly some NEM arrangements. For instance it is the only way you can set up a system for zero export.

[sdold]

This is "Makes sense, good info" only if you all will get a good laugh when

Calm down, I was curious about the requirement for the Envoy and I thought you would be too.