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8400w Grid Tie System - Kit or piece it together?

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  • #31
    Overall dimensions of the south/east facing roof area is ~40'x13' (which I listed back on the first page somewhere). The plan was 2 rows of 12 in portrait for a total of 24 panels. That's the most effective use of space I could come up with however I haven't drawn anything up in cad yet. It would effectively use the entire south/eastern facing roof. Again, that all depends on what the inspector says the requirements are.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mr4btTahoe View Post
      County doesn't require anything to be done by an electrician oddly. They only require that once the work is complete, that it will pass their inspection.
      Many AHJ have a rule that allows the owner to do work themselves and act as the general contractor. In CA it's often referred to as "owner/builder". (based on your name, I had assumed you're in CA like me, but a later post of yours says Indiana.)
      (not sure why littleharbor says "clearly you're not in CA" - I know lots of places in CA that get over 6" of snow)

      BTW I see you're calculating snow load and weight of panels for stress on the roof/trusses.
      IMO that's less likely to be a problem than the up-lift from wind. The uplift from wind pushing on those panels can be quite significant and you need to look at that very carefully.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
        it often depends on if it is an occupied structure. "shop" could qualify, barn likely wouldn't.
        It seems CA's fire code says they don't apply to a "non-habitable structure".
        (But I don't see where they define a non-habitable structure.)
        So that may be one way to avoid any setback requirements.

        In this case we're talking about a detached pole shed.
        Probably open all the way to the roofing (most pole sheds are)
        Since it's one big open space, if the firemen wanted to cut a hole on the northern side of the ridge for venting, it'd be just as good as the southern side. So my guess is that *IF* there's a fire setback requirement, asking the fire dept nicely for a waiver will get you a waiver.

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        • #34
          [QUOTE=foo1bar;n372424]
          M
          (not sure why littleharbor says "clearly you're not in CA" - I know lots of places in CA that get over 6" of snow)

          I assumed he's not from California because of the lack of regulations he's dealing with.

          Motorheads will recognize his handle as referring to a Cummins 4 cylinder diesel powered Chevy Tahoe. Unless I'm mistaken.
          2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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          • #35
            Originally posted by littleharbor View Post
            I assumed he's not from California because of the lack of regulations he's dealing with.
            Doesn't seem much different from what I had to deal with as a CA resident...
            POCO required permit and inspection by the AHJ.
            AHJ required permit and inspection by them.
            Main difference might be that since mine was on a house roof (and in CA), I had the 3' walkway requirements. Which I did for some of it - and some of it I got a waiver from the fire dept.

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            • #36
              [QUOTE=littleharbor;n372426]
              Originally posted by foo1bar View Post
              M
              (not sure why littleharbor says "clearly you're not in CA" - I know lots of places in CA that get over 6" of snow)

              I assumed he's not from California because of the lack of regulations he's dealing with.

              Motorheads will recognize his handle as referring to a Cummins 4 cylinder diesel powered Chevy Tahoe. Unless I'm mistaken.
              You'd be correct. I am located in Southern Indiana. My name is from one of my projects....

              13170_865268930162208_4292118402659021500_n_zpstak eot59 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

              Compounded 4bt to be exact...
              20140607_172152_zpsf98c3cf7 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

              Not to get too far off topic.. Not in Cali.. not many hoops to jump through other then basic code... only inspection required as far as I know right now is from the POCO. Waiting on a call from the AHJ to figure out what all I need to do and what other hoops I need to jump through.

              I believe based on how the code is written, I'll be fine on setbacks and such as this is a pole barn and not inhabited.

              I'm still struggling with what to do with the POCO interconnect application. The first step is to provide them with a detailed spec including one line drawing and details of exactly what equipment will be used. I'll be calling them back tomorrow to see what exactly I can do or if I can at least get part of the application process going prior to purchasing components. I'd hate to get knee deep in this project and then have to re-submit the application because I can no longer get the panels I originally chose or something along those lines.

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              • #37
                Beautiful job on the install. I'd be proud to own it. My last two vehicles are 5.9 powered.
                2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by littleharbor View Post
                  Beautiful job on the install. I'd be proud to own it. My last two vehicles are 5.9 powered.
                  I definitely am. It's been a fun project and definitely gets attention. The looks I get when I pull up to the fuel station is always priceless.

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                  • #39
                    I remember the first time I heard a healthy V-8 rumbling under a Datsun pick up. Double take, for sure. Cummins engines have a unmistakable sound as well. Can't sneak up on anybody with one. That's for sure.
                    2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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                    • #40
                      My 62 Jetfire gave me a big appreciation for turbos. They work even better on diesels. Bruce Roe

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                      • #41
                        Just got off the phone with the POCO.. finally was able to talk to someone who could clarify a few things for me on their end anyways. I got to talk to their "Net Metering Engineer" which is is the sole person responsible for handling all applications for net metering in this area. In his words for a 10kw and under system, the paperwork they provide makes it sound MUCH more complicated then it needs to be.

                        He said when I submit the application, all I need to provide to him is the model information on the inverter. Said I don't need any diagrams or nonsense on the panels, racking, boxes, etc.. used. He said the fact of the matter is, you cant produce more power then the inverter will produce so nothing else matters to him (as long as the equipment is certified obviously). He said they don't require anything special at all (such as additional meters, disconnects, etc..) as long as everything passes the county inspection which he said the only thing the county should require is a basic electrical inspection.

                        He also said that the application process goes pretty quickly.. 3-4 days after he receives it, it would be processed. Have 90 days to complete the installation (can be extended for any length of time as long as progress is being made) and after installation is complete, takes 3-5 days on average for them to come out and install the meter.

                        That's a big stress off my back. Now to deal with the county and make sure I've got my ducks in a row. Cant wait to get things rolling!
                        Last edited by Mr4btTahoe; 03-07-2018, 03:06 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mr4btTahoe View Post
                          He said when I submit the application, all I need to provide to him is the model information on the inverter. Said I don't need any diagrams or nonsense on the panels, racking, boxes, etc.. used. He said the fact of the matter is, you cant produce more power then the inverter will produce so nothing else matters to him (as long as the equipment is certified obviously).
                          So it sounds like you could install a larger system as long as you only install a 10kW inverter.
                          OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                            So it sounds like you could install a larger system as long as you only install a 10kW inverter.
                            Indeed. The idea at the moment is to oversize the inverter to allow the system some growth potential down the road.

                            I mean.. he is right. If I feed more power into the inverter then it can take, it's just going to damage the inverter. If the panels fail or something is fishy with them... its just going to damage the inverter. So as long as the inverter is sized properly, certified, and the install meets code, nothing else matters (to them anyways) as it can't damage their equipment or cause them issues.

                            Also said I just need to provide proof of liability insurance of 100k (300k is standard in this area anyways) so that'll not be an issue.
                            Last edited by Mr4btTahoe; 03-07-2018, 03:24 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Now that I know I can come right up to 10kw without any additional regulations and such... I'm leaning more towards a pair of 5kw inverters instead of a single 7-8k inverter.

                              Original "plan" was a single SMA SB7.7

                              Now I'm leaning more towards a pare of the SMA SB5.0 inverters. This would have a 2 fold benefit as each inverter can provide 2kw while the power is out as long as the panels are producing power and would give me the potential to increase my array size up to 10kw if ever needed.

                              With that said, these inverters have a peak output of 5kw @ 240v which means 20.8amps. With the SB7.7, I was going to need a single 40a breaker (32a potential).

                              Could I safely feed through 2 20a breakers or would I have to go with 30s considering max output is just over 20 amps? I will more then likely never up the array to 10kw... possibly 8.5-9k so the inverters will never put out their peak power... but where would I stand legally considering the potential?

                              With a pair of 30s.. I'd be just over the 120% rule so I would have to make some changes to the panel. Not a huge deal... but something to consider none the less.

                              Also talked to my buddy who is a contractor. He says the roof will hold the weight without a problem but if I wanted a bit more of a design factor, I could run 2x4s or 2x6s on edge under the roof purlins (forming a T) between the trusses and gain a substantial amount of strength. Can be done easily from the underside so will probably do it just for added safety.
                              Last edited by Mr4btTahoe; 03-07-2018, 04:54 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Mr4btTahoe View Post
                                Now that I know I can come right up to 10kw without any additional regulations and such... I'm leaning more towards a pair of 5kw inverters instead of a single 7-8k inverter.

                                Original "plan" was a single SMA SB7.7

                                Now I'm leaning more towards a pare of the SMA SB5.0 inverters. This would have a 2 fold benefit as each inverter can provide 2kw while the power is out as long as the panels are producing power and would give me the potential to increase my array size up to 10kw if ever needed.

                                With that said, these inverters have a peak output of 5kw @ 240v which means 20.8amps. With the SB7.7, I was going to need a single 40a breaker (32a potential).

                                Could I safely feed through 2 20a breakers or would I have to go with 30s considering max output is just over 20 amps? I will more then likely never up the array to 10kw... possibly 8.5-9k so the inverters will never put out their peak power... but where would I stand legally considering the potential?

                                With a pair of 30s.. I'd be just over the 120% rule so I would have to make some changes to the panel. Not a huge deal... but something to consider none the less.

                                Also talked to my buddy who is a contractor. He says the roof will hold the weight without a problem but if I wanted a bit more of a design factor, I could run 2x4s or 2x6s on edge under the roof purlins (forming a T) between the trusses and gain a substantial amount of strength. Can be done easily from the underside so will probably do it just for added safety.
                                anything over 40A (~ 7.6kw ) usually requires a lineside tap. you can not feed the 5kw into a 20a breaker.


                                Your safest bet for mounting is to use something like the ironridge XR100 which has a longer span or even better the XR1000. you do need to make sure you use good hanger bolts at each mount point but it can usually span the distances between supports on pole structures.
                                OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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