Monitoring & data privacy & other newbie question

[guyinCT]

Hi all,
after doing some research myself, I decided to tap into the vast knowledge of everyone else in here to get some additional opinions/comments/feedback

1. Monitoring & data privacy:
I live in CT, and CT has some nice additional incentives through CT Green bank. The catch is that they make you sign a contract that will allow them to access all the data from the monitoring tool. Period. There is no additional information as to what they are doing with the data or who they might be sharing it with. Since CT Green bank is sort of a state institution they have to abide by the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Unfortunately, I could not find out if my data that I would allow them access to would fall under that, but I have to think that it would.
I know that lots of folks don't really care what happens with their data (especially if they get paid for it), but unfortunately for me, I do care and I'd like to know what kind of data they access, how they protect it in their systems and so on. The same obviously holds true for the solar company that I'm gong with. I found it really hard to find out any detailed information about how data is transferred to them, if it's encrypted, how they are sharing it with, general data privacy agreements and so on. Again - I understand that many of you might not be as concerned as I am, but if anyone else likes to put on their "tin hat", please let me know your thoughts and if you have any additional information.

2. Sunpower & customer service:
Now from what I gather, Sunpower panels are really expensive, but from a quality and performance/efficiency point of view they are top notch. Would that be an accurate statement? However, browsing through various company review sites, and solar panel review sites, I keep getting the impressions that Sunpower has the worst customer service ever. Everyone seems to be satisfied as long as it works, but most people seem to have an issue with calling in issues and getting Sunpower to react at all or at least within a decent amount of time. Has anyone had any experience in that regard with Sunpower? Maybe especially people in CT?

3. Contract & Arbitration clause:
The contract I was presented from Sunpower states that I would agree to waive my rights to a traditional court of law, and it would be settled through arbitration. I have never dealt with arbitration, so I don't know if this is an acceptable clause. After doing some research I found out that it is quite common to do that, but I still have a funny feeling about it. Not that I would not believe a big national company *sarcasmoff*, but I am sure there is some agenda behind the fact that they rather go through arbitration than through a court system - and I doubt that they are doing it because they are only looking out for the well being of their customers.

4. Sunpower panels:
As already indicated, I know that Sunpower panels are top dollars. I have to admit that I really like the fact that they are very efficient, which allows me to keep the number of panels down - which is one of my objectives. I am also very much in favor of the design of the X21-335 due to the fact that they are all black with no white backboard, which is very appealing to me. I received a quote for $18,509.00 before any incentives (state + federal) for a 4.36 kW system. Can I get some comments on that as well? Does that seem reasonable?
If anyone has other recommendations that meet the criteria of low number of panels, all black, ~4.40 kW, I appreciate your recommendations.

5. Companies in CT:
If anyone has recommendations for solar companies in CT (general Hartford area / Middlesex county), I'd appreciate any recommendations (I hope that does not interfere with any forum rules, if it does, please disregard). I've already done some shopping around, but since it is a big purchase, I'd rather spend some extra time to look at all my options.

6. Any additional advice for newbies:
If you know of any common pitfalls or have additional advice, let me have it


That's all folks, thanks for your ideas/comments/thoughts in advance, hope that someday I will have more knowledge of solar and can contribute to this forum as well.

Thanks!!

PS: Don't feel obliged to answer them all, if you can contribute to just one of them, I'd greatly appreciate it as well.

[J.P.M.]

1.) Don't know about CT, but do know that whatever anyone wants to find out about you, if they want it bad enough - they'll get it. That's just the way it is.
2.) I've found Sunpower cust. service to be a waste of my time. Typical foreign country folks in a cage that probably get beat/poked with sticks. Just about useless.
3.) Most every contract has mandatory arbitration for dispute settlement. Still, anyone can sue anyone. That clause just makes it harder more $$. Consult an attorney for particulars.
4.) Please tell me what you know about solar panel efficiency as Sunpower uses that term, and then explain to me why you think it's important. Then, tell me why you what to leave money on the table. If you think using S.P. equipment will lead to a more cost effective installation because of their "most efficient" claim B.S., I've got a bridge to sell you.
No, it does not seem reasonable. Look some more and disabuse yourself of the idea that Sunpower stuff is worth much more than maybe a 5 % premium over other quality and equally fit for purpose equipment.
FWIW, a decent system in SO. CA can be had for ~ $3.00 to maybe $3.50/STC W before incentives. S.P. prices are coming down but are still a lot more than that. Un educated and ignorant solar seekers always pay more. I've got an HOA full of such types. Most of them think they got a real deal, especially those who leased. Most everybody got more/less screwed by opportunistic peddlers.
5.) Out of my knowledge base.
6.):
- Get and read "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", especially the parts about conservation being more cost effective than anything else, including PV. About 20 bucks + tax at bookstores/Amazon. You need an education and that's a pretty good primer.
- Don't drink any more of the Sunpower koolaid. You'll wind up thinking that a Mercedes is as cost effective as a Toyota when the task is to haul groceries.
- Get your roof inspected/serviced. PV will last a long time. Give the roof under an array the highest probability of lasing as long. You will not regret it. Chasing leaks under an array is a near impossible task.
- After the read, get a list of questions you will know the answers to and then get more quotes from local established electrical contractors who have been around for 10+ yrs. or more and sold PV for at least 5 yrs. Ask them your questions and be surprised or comforted by the answers you get. You'll learn more about the installers knowledge base than you learned by finding the answers on your own.
- NEVER share prices with competing vendors. For one thing, It's got no class, and anyway, it's counterproductive in that you'll only pay more in the end. Think about it: You give away valuable negotiating information/tools by doing so. What do get in return ? What do you gain by doing so ?

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

[guyinCT]

1.) Don't know about CT, but do know that whatever anyone wants to find out about you, if they want it bad enough - they'll get it. That's just the way it is.
2.) I've found Sunpower cust. service to be a waste of my time. Typical foreign country folks in a cage that probably get beat/poked with sticks. Just about useless.
3.) Most every contract has mandatory arbitration for dispute settlement. Still, anyone can sue anyone. That clause just makes it harder more $$. Consult an attorney for particulars.
4.) Please tell me what you know about solar panel efficiency as Sunpower uses that term, and then explain to me why you think it's important. Then, tell me why you what to leave money on the table. If you think using S.P. equipment will lead to a more cost effective installation because of their "most efficient" claim B.S., I've got a bridge to sell you.
No, it does not seem reasonable. Look some more and disabuse yourself of the idea that Sunpower stuff is worth much more than maybe a 5 % premium over other quality and equally fit for purpose equipment.
FWIW, a decent system in SO. CA can be had for ~ $3.00 to maybe $3.50/STC W before incentives. S.P. prices are coming down but are still a lot more than that. Un educated and ignorant solar seekers always pay more. I've got an HOA full of such types. Most of them think they got a real deal, especially those who leased. Most everybody got more/less screwed by opportunistic peddlers.
5.) Out of my knowledge base.
6.):
- Get and read "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", especially the parts about conservation being more cost effective than anything else, including PV. About 20 bucks + tax at bookstores/Amazon. You need an education and that's a pretty good primer.
- Don't drink any more of the Sunpower koolaid. You'll wind up thinking that a Mercedes is as cost effective as a Toyota when the task is to haul groceries.
- Get your roof inspected/serviced. PV will last a long time. Give the roof under an array the highest probability of lasing as long. You will not regret it. Chasing leaks under an array is a near impossible task.
- After the read, get a list of questions you will know the answers to and then get more quotes from local established electrical contractors who have been around for 10+ yrs. or more and sold PV for at least 5 yrs. Ask them your questions and be surprised or comforted by the answers you get. You'll learn more about the installers knowledge base than you learned by finding the answers on your own.
- NEVER share prices with competing vendors. For one thing, It's got no class, and anyway, it's counterproductive in that you'll only pay more in the end. Think about it: You give away valuable negotiating information/tools by doing so. What do get in return ? What do you gain by doing so ?

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

Thanks for your comments.
ad 3: Unfortunately, the Sunpower contract does not allow me to take it to court. Arbitration is binding and final. However, good to know that this is common practice these days.
ad 4: my understanding was (not only from SP's explanation, but from reading various articles) that certain panels have various percentages of efficiency. While the average panels go up to 18%, the high efficiency panels (like some SP or Panasonic panels) go up to 22%. As I have limited roof space available, I need to keep the number of panels low. Correct me if I'm wrong, but higher efficiency panels mean lower number of panels, correct? I am not looking for the cheapest solution, so I am ok with a paying a bit more to accommodate my wish list, but I certainly don't want to throw money out the window. If I get what I want from another vendor, sign me up! Again, my decision is by no means made up, but I just happened to talk to a local dealer who was trying to sell me Sunpower stuff, so that what got me started in looking into it. Also, I do care about the look of the panels, so I really want to try to go all black, call me vein, but if they grace my roof for the next decades, I want to go with the ones that look better (at least to me). Leasing or doing a PPA is out of the question for me.

Again, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions....and the book should show up shortly on my door step

[bcroe]

I do care about the look of the panels, so I really want to try to go all black, call me vain, but
if they grace my roof for the next decades, I want to go with the ones that look better (at least to me).

The black looks good, and would help melting snow in these parts. I wonder if the color will last the life of the
panels, or will peel off someday? Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for your comments.
ad 3: Unfortunately, the Sunpower contract does not allow me to take it to court. Arbitration is binding and final. However, good to know that this is common practice these days.
ad 4: my understanding was (not only from SP's explanation, but from reading various articles) that certain panels have various percentages of efficiency. While the average panels go up to 18%, the high efficiency panels (like some SP or Panasonic panels) go up to 22%. As I have limited roof space available, I need to keep the number of panels low. Correct me if I'm wrong, but higher efficiency panels mean lower number of panels, correct? I am not looking for the cheapest solution, so I am ok with a paying a bit more to accommodate my wish list, but I certainly don't want to throw money out the window. If I get what I want from another vendor, sign me up! Again, my decision is by no means made up, but I just happened to talk to a local dealer who was trying to sell me Sunpower stuff, so that what got me started in looking into it. Also, I do care about the look of the panels, so I really want to try to go all black, call me vein, but if they grace my roof for the next decades, I want to go with the ones that look better (at least to me). Leasing or doing a PPA is out of the question for me.

Again, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions....and the book should show up shortly on my door step

You are welcome.
On #3: Yea, and I believe everything I read. Any one can sue anyone else. Consult an attorney.
On #4 : Forget about the number of panels. Think of total system size to meet a required electrical requirement (and not necessarily an entire electrical load BTW).

A thought experiment:Think of system (electrical) size as similar to a task that takes 10,000 lbm of rocks as ballast to accomplish. Within reason, you don't care if the individual rocks each weigh 250 lbm or 350 lbm or any thing else, just as long as you get close to 10,000 lbm of rocks +/- a bit. So, now you go down to your friendly neighborhood rock store and find they have what you need but only a few rock weights are available and they tend to be of the heavier variety. The rock peddler says they have rocks and that each rock has a mass of 350 lbm and they are of polished granite. Because they're granite, and denser than other rocks from other vendors they are the best (or so says the peddler). Not only that, but because they are denser than other rocks, the ballast pile you wind up with will be smaller on your property and so take up less space. Of course, because they take are the best and take up less space and are polished (they look SOOO NICE, or so says the salesperson), they cost more, but they are guaranteed to stay rocks for 25 years. Such a deal !

Meanwhile, you notice an outfit across the street from the first rock place that is also in the rock business. So, being in possession of at least one eye and one balloon knot, and having your goal of 10,000 lbm of rocks firmly in mind, you mosey across the street and find that their rocks are each the same size as the others but, because they are of a slightly less density than the other rocks they weigh 300 lbm ea., not 350 lbm like the others across the street, and are not polished. But, for your end goal as ballast, they are quite fit for purpose. They are also guaranteed to stay rocks for 25 years and keep their weight just like the others from the first place, So, while still keeping your goal of ballast firmly in mind, and determining that these rocks from the second vendor are as fit for purpose as the others from the first place, you ask for a price and find out that these rocks, after washing, loading, delivered and located to your job site will actually have a landed cost on your job site that's about 20 % less than the others. But, you'll have about 15 % more rocks and the pile will be about 20 % bigger. (Oh the humanity !) In the end, either way, you'll have met your goal of 10,000 lbm of rocks located as ballast that will, in all likelihood, stay where you put them and pretty much perform their function of ballant for as long as you own them and beyond. One is 20 % less $$. You have a choice to make.

Same thing with most residential PV as with buying a pile of rocks. Sunpower sells great rocks. So do lots of other outfits. Most all are fit for purpose with more than adequate quality. Sunpower costs more for things that do not add any bottom line value, or make their stuff more fit for purpose, or last any longer, or produce more long term output in any way that can be justified from a seriously done economic standpoint or even verified for that matter - at least not for the up front premium they extract.

Look: PV is an appliance, not a lifestyle. It's a commodity, not a fashion statement. Do as you will, NOMB/money/life. but, before you spend a boatload of money, it won't hurt to get informed, stop listening to hype from peddlers and advertising that uses people's solar and general ignorance about energy use to separate them from their assets, and know that PV is at or close to the point of garage door openers, water heaters and tooth brushes. Beyond some basic quality level, there is not a whole lot of bottom line difference in solar equipment quality.

But, know that there is, or can be a large difference in vendor and installation quality. Spend more time getting a good self education and, after that, spend as much or more time interviewing and questioning vendors. BTW, and my opinion only, I'd not waste time on vendor referrals or junk online stuff like Angie's list, etc. You'll get to read what's mostly ignorant blather from people who know less about PV than I know about macram