Check your Edison Bill TOU-D-A , Base Line Credit

[DrChaos]

In California: In the end I believe that 'net' energy metering means what it sounds like, that it's symmetrical between production and consumption, with the explicit exception now of non-bypassable charges. What really matters is what the CPUC approves. Here is what SDG&E says on NEM-ST:

http://regarchive.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/E...EDS_NEM-ST.pdf

Look at section 3 a):

Baseline Rates: If the customer is a net consumer over a billing period, the net kWh consumed shall be billed at the applicable baseline rates up to the billing period's baseline allowance, with any excess kWh consumed billed at the applicable non-baseline rates charged other customers in the rate class. If the customer is a net generator over a billing period, the net kWh generated shall be valued at the applicable baseline rates up to the billing period's baseline allowance, with any excess kWh generated valued at the applicable non-baseline rates charged other customers in the rate class. Any nonbypassable charges, as defined in Special Condition 1 of this schedule, shall be billed based on the kWhs consumed in each metered interval net of exports.

[J.P.M.]

In California: In the end I believe that 'net' energy metering means what it sounds like, that it's symmetrical between production and consumption, with the explicit exception now of non-bypassable charges. What really matters is what the CPUC approves. Here is what SDG&E says on NEM-ST:

http://regarchive.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/E...EDS_NEM-ST.pdf

Look at section 3 a):

Baseline Rates: If the customer is a net consumer over a billing period, the net kWh consumed shall be billed at the applicable baseline rates up to the billing period's baseline allowance, with any excess kWh consumed billed at the applicable non-baseline rates charged other customers in the rate class. If the customer is a net generator over a billing period, the net kWh generated shall be valued at the applicable baseline rates up to the billing period's baseline allowance, with any excess kWh generated valued at the applicable non-baseline rates charged other customers in the rate class. Any nonbypassable charges, as defined in Special Condition 1 of this schedule, shall be billed based on the kWhs consumed in each metered interval net of exports.

Which is how SDG & E implements some CPUC ruling(s) as it (they) may pertain to SDG & E operations. However, that may or may not be how SCE interprets and implements what the CPUC has issued (and I'd guess it's not the same but I could be wrong).

Billing procedures for the big 3 CA POCOs may be similar, or may be, and probably are, different one POCO to the next depending on how a POCO interprets CPUC rulings for their POCO and still be in conformance to CPUC mandates. What works for one may not work for another. Been there. Looked a lot.

From all that been there, done that nonsense, the best way I've found (and not to say easy) to get correct answers is to first get questions properly formulated. As an aside, doing so usually means I self answer a lot of my own questions. If the question remains, I then ask it of the folks who send me the bill. By that time, I may well know as much about tariff rules and CPUC mandates as they pertain to my question as the first person I speak with. That acquired knowledge also gives me a bit of gravitas when/if I need to climb the chain of command. Eventually, I get to someone who can answer my question and who can also usually point to a chapter/verse somewhere as confirmation.

It all depends on how much you want an answer and how much time you want to invest, but the best answers come from the horse's mouth. It's simply too bad, but maybe a fact of life that sometimes it takes the equivalent of doing a root canal on the horse to get an answer.

[DrChaos]

Unfortunately, I can believe that. I am surprised the CPUC doesn't show an explicit example of their ruling, but that's the difference between engineers (how do I compute this) vs lawyers (how to open and close loopholes). I presume though that any interpretation/rate sheet approved by CPUC (as the SDG&E one was) should overrule any particular interpretation of a SCE manager. Does SCE have the equivalent documents----the SDG&E ones are filed to CPUC as far as I can tell.

If I were writing the software I would implement add RateCharge(abs(kWh))*sgn(kWh) to the debit/credit account, add NBC(consumed kWh per interval) to the real money account. I think that's what SDG&E will do according to their filings. What is unclear is if you are a consumer does the RateCharge() already include the NBC so are you paying it twice? All could have been solved by an example or formula @ CPUC, but no.

[J.P.M.]

Unfortunately, I can believe that. I am surprised the CPUC doesn't show an explicit example of their ruling, but that's the difference between engineers (how do I compute this) vs lawyers (how to open and close loopholes). I presume though that any interpretation/rate sheet approved by CPUC (as the SDG&E one was) should overrule any particular interpretation of a SCE manager. Does SCE have the equivalent documents----the SDG&E ones are filed to CPUC as far as I can tell.

If I were writing the software I would implement add RateCharge(abs(kWh))*sgn(kWh) to the debit/credit account, add NBC(consumed kWh per interval) to the real money account. I think that's what SDG&E will do according to their filings. What is unclear is if you are a consumer does the RateCharge() already include the NBC so are you paying it twice? All could have been solved by an example or formula @ CPUC, but no.

They - be it the POCOs or the CPUC - cannot show an example because there is no one size fits all. To be complete the number of examples would be large and probably cause more confusion than clarity. Welcome to the world of CA POCO/CPUC rates/tariffs. Things will not be what you assume. Get your questions clear and formatted and begin the climb up the chain of command.

[arf88]

3 Weeks later still waiting for 2 different supervisors to provide me answers from SCE. Going to call again next week to follow up. Credits aside the rates don't match the rate table either so lots of issues still unknown with my first bill.

[J.P.M.]

3 Weeks later still waiting for 2 different supervisors to provide me answers from SCE. Going to call again next week to follow up. Credits aside the rates don't match the rate table either so lots of issues still unknown with my first bill.

Understood. What are you waiting for ? When you last spoke with someone at the POCO,did you ask and be persistent for a reply date ? If not, don't be surprised or disappointed if you get nothing. There is also no one or anything preventing you from calling them and asking what happened to your reply.

I've found it helpful to always get the names, depts. and job titles of the folks I speak with. Funny how promises of call backs come to fruition more often when the person on the other end knows I have their name. That info also helps in cases where I needed to be the squeaky wheel and talk to "so and so's" supervisor on my way up the chain of command.

I learned a long time ago that nothing can replace persistence. In cases such as these, it is damn near omnipotent, but you gotta' be proactive, assume things will be a PITA all the way, take the bull by the tail and face the situation squarely. Just stay professional, impersonal and unemotional, and think like the other person from their position.

One other point: Aside from the fact that there are many things that can and do affect rates, one of the common ones is that rates can and do change at any time, more often than you may think, and often do. Rate changes and adjustments are published but users are not necessarily advised when rate changes take place with the result for example, that if a rate adjustment took effect last week and you're using a schedule that's older, obviously your numbers will not match the POCO's.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Ward L]

Please excuse if this is a little off topic, but I have had my panels for 4 years with a surplus of power production every year. This January I received a letter from SCE telling me they were switching me to a TOU contract and my bill would go up about $200/year. They called me at least twice and sent me a back-up letter asking me to confirm my choice to go to TOU or stay on my fixed Tier tariff. If I had done nothing, I would have been switched to a TOU contract. I replied to SCE requesting to stay on my current Tiered tariff. Since I hope to get an EV soon, I started building a spreadsheet to calculate the cost of my EV and to determine the best of several rate options SCE offers. I downloaded my hourly use/production off the SCE website and tried to replicate my past bills with my hourly use data. I could get within a couple of bucks on the calculated vs actual, but never perfect. When I modeled the TOU contracts it became clear I didn't know how to interpret the tariff. My point is, the TOU tariffs are extremely complicated and it is no surprise SCE doesn't know the right person to ask to answer your question about your bill. You know they have a spreadsheet or "computer program" with all the details of each tariff to send you a bill each month. I originally assumed SCE was changing everyone to a TOU tariff, but I soon found out none of my friends were asked to switch. Now I assume my excess power generation prompted the request for me to change. I was able to determine, by staying on my tiered tariff, I will be able to suck up my excess production and end up charging my EV at a rate equivalent to about 7 cents/kWh which is better than any TOU contract.

[J.P.M.]

Please excuse if this is a little off topic, but I have had my panels for 4 years with a surplus of power production every year. This January I received a letter from SCE telling me they were switching me to a TOU contract and my bill would go up about $200/year. They called me at least twice and sent me a back-up letter asking me to confirm my choice to go to TOU or stay on my fixed Tier tariff. If I had done nothing, I would have been switched to a TOU contract. I replied to SCE requesting to stay on my current Tiered tariff. Since I hope to get an EV soon, I started building a spreadsheet to calculate the cost of my EV and to determine the best of several rate options SCE offers. I downloaded my hourly use/production off the SCE website and tried to replicate my past bills with my hourly use data. I could get within a couple of bucks on the calculated vs actual, but never perfect. When I modeled the TOU contracts it became clear I didn't know how to interpret the tariff. My point is, the TOU tariffs are extremely complicated and it is no surprise SCE doesn't know the right person to ask to answer your question about your bill. You know they have a spreadsheet or "computer program" with all the details of each tariff to send you a bill each month. I originally assumed SCE was changing everyone to a TOU tariff, but I soon found out none of my friends were asked to switch. Now I assume my excess power generation prompted the request for me to change. I was able to determine, by staying on my tiered tariff, I will be able to suck up my excess production and end up charging my EV at a rate equivalent to about 7 cents/kWh which is better than any TOU contract.

IMO, not as off topic as you may think. Two points you make or maybe imply, are 1: That tariffs are complicated and 2: Most folks know little about them. Both of those items seem to be, to me anyway, for better or worse, facts of life. Users can do little about the first and a lot about the second.

As for forcing users to switch to a T.O.U. tariff, Although the POCO wording may read like users have no choice, and some do not, others do. Careful reading and maybe some homework as you've done and may need to continue to do as required in the future is usually required. I'm not as familiar w/SCE as I am with SDG & E rules, tariffs and rate schedules, but at this time under SDG & E, I'm under no mandate to get off a tiered rate schedule. I expect, and I'm resigned to the idea that some day, tiered rate schedules will be retired and no more after what will probably be some grandparented or legacy period, but that day is not here yet.

Part of my understanding w/respect to CPUC mandates and how AB327 has/is /will be implemented with respect to getting rid of tiered rates is that it will be gradual, and non mandated, at least in the early stages. I'm pretty sure SDG & E is doing their best to essentially trick their residential users into thinking the users have no choice in going to T.O.U., and for some users, mostly new users and/or those who change service or get new PV systems, T.O.U. may be mandated. But not for everyone, at least not today or yet.

For existing users, including those with existing PV systems under NEM 1.0 who want to remain on tiered rates, they must proactively notify SDG & E of their intent to remain on tiered rates when SDG & E sends them a letter saying they (the user) is being switched to T.O.U. That sounds similar to the letter you got. In SDG & E's case, if users on tiered rates do not proactively notify SDG & E of their intent, those users will go, by default, to a T.O.U. tariff.

All that says nothing however, about whether or not a T.O.U. tariff is better for any particular user. For many, it is, for others it is not. Unfortunately, figuring that out is where the two points above come in, big time. From what you describe, and having got with a couple of bucks, you probably appreciate what I'm writing about. It has been my experience that most folks simply ignore the situation, roll over and probably take in the shorts, and then do little more than bitch about how unfair life is.

To my experience, tariffs and rates are not conceptually difficult. Figuring them out is a lot like doing a jig saw puzzle. The biggest problem for me was finding information and explanation of how a POCO's rate system works, and all the things and terms that go into calculating a rate. Most of those attributes are simple to understand once explained. Finding the simple answers is usually the rub. Without definitions or places to get explanations, figuring out a rate is sort of like doing a jigsaw puzzle that has no picture to help along the way - think of a completely black jig saw puzzle with no picture. To that end, the POCO's are under no mandate or obligation to spoonfeed and wetnurse my ignorance. I get that. Another complicating fact of life: A lot of the information needed is also probably unknown by the first person I usually speak with at the POCO. So, that's when the climb up the chain of command begins, and the benefits of persistence become apparent. Once I get my information, it becomes a plug & chug operation. Then, the best way I've found to check my work is to back calculate an existing bill from a user who is already on that schedule I'm trying to figure out. Do it right and it's possible to get within a few pennies. It is a simple matter to define with, as with many other endeavors, the devil being in, or in this case, in getting, the details.