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**DanS26** · 01-30-2018, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by vino1982

i am going to install the eyedro clamps on each Pv system tap in my electrical panel overnight. record any current draw. It should be very minimal if each inverter is only to draw very little wattage. I certainly shouldn't be seeing .3kwh orso usage.

Use a clamp meter on each string......you do not have to wait overnight...it will tell you right now which string is pulling the load.

**ButchDeal** · 01-30-2018, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by DanS26

I don't think the "white box" is a combiner box based on the OP's comments....I think he has three strings feeding his distribution panel. Three sets of tandem breakers.

possibly, could be the envoy.

If there is an aggregator it would normally be on the roof but we don't even know the inverter models.

Any chance we can get photos of the "white box" and feed in breaker(s)?

**vino1982** · 01-30-2018, 07:43 PM

inside the mysterious white box...

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0130181643.jpg (1.57 MB, 3 views)

**ButchDeal** · 01-30-2018, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by vino1982

inside the mysterious white box...

Yep it is the envoy and combiner of three strings.

measure the amp loaned on these four circuits. The top one is the envoy itself.

**DanS26** · 01-30-2018, 08:39 PM

Butch....you were right but please don't tell us that it cost $600 a year to power the Envoy. If so Enphase needs to go back to the drawing boards. hahaha

**ButchDeal** · 01-30-2018, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by DanS26

Butch....you were right but please don't tell us that it cost $600 a year to power the Envoy. If so Enphase needs to go back to the drawing boards. hahaha

I am not an Enphase fan but that is not what I am saying. I think either the OP is measuring things incorrectly or something else is wrong.

the combiner is the place to check string by string but I would check at night as we do not know the layout of the strings

**vino1982** · 01-31-2018, 08:18 AM

i tested this morning before sun up... I used my ideal amp probe on the wire taps of the PV system in my electrical panel, with everything on in the pv white box im drawing 3.14 amps on each leg (pv sytsem tap).... shutting off the white breaker in the pv box did nothing, no change in amps drawn... when i shut off 1 of the orange tandem breakers it drops 1 amp, another tandem breaker drops another amp, the last tandem breaker i shut off now im drawing .04 amps from the envoy the only thing left on...

**vino1982** · 01-31-2018, 08:22 AM

3.14 amp total draw @ 117 volts 367 watts running. between the different measurements it is ceratin the pv system is drawing anywhere from 300 - 375 watts 24/7

**bcroe** · 01-31-2018, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by vino1982

3.14 amp total draw @ 117 volts 367 watts running. between the different measurements it is ceratin the pv system is drawing anywhere from 300 - 375 watts 24/7

An ammeter won't tell the Power Factor. A system might have a serious noise filter on the line. That filter
could conduct a lot of REACTIVE power anytime connected, but that costs you nothing at a PF of zero.
The resistive element (PF = one) could be quite small. Bruce Roe

**DanS26** · 01-31-2018, 11:19 AM

Per Enphase the night time power consumption is 65mW max.....per their specs for the M250. If my calcs are right that is only 2.54W for all 39 micros together.

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/M250_DS_EN_60Hz.pdf

**DanS26** · 01-31-2018, 11:22 AM

Maybe a neighbor has an extension cord up on the roof

But seriously, something is pulling power and I don't think it is a Power Factor adjustment.

**ButchDeal** · 01-31-2018, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by DanS26

Per Enphase the night time power consumption is 65mW max.....per their specs for the M250. If my calcs are right that is only 2.54W for all 39 micros together.

https://enphase.com/sites/default/fi...DS_EN_60Hz.pdf

They don't give the night time specs on the Q series but I doubt it is within that range.

**ButchDeal** · 01-31-2018, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by bcroe

An ammeter won't tell the Power Factor. A system might have a serious noise filter on the line. That filter
could conduct a lot of REACTIVE power anytime connected, but that costs you nothing at a PF of zero.
The resistive element (PF = one) could be quite small. Bruce Roe

This could be the issue here. it would show up as zero on the grid meter or any good meter with PF and voltage calculations but not the eyedro meter that the OP has or a single leg clamp meter.
I have looked at these "filters" as some partners tried to claim that they saved money. I could find no savings on the systems we looked at but they do try to balance the legs and move power from one leg to the other in a way that shows odd data on an ammeter. I wonder if the Q series themselves are doing this "filtering"

**vino1982** · 01-31-2018, 12:10 PM

I'm concerned to leave it on. A good sunny winter day I make 19kwh. If I have to contend with 8kwh usage on average it wont make out. Unless I shut it off at night, cut it in half. What are we talking about here? Mis information coming from my meter? There seems to be the same draw on each string of panels, when monitored individually. I mean these things are drawing power, right? Equivalent to
your furnace fan spinning 24/7

**DanS26** · 01-31-2018, 12:12 PM

OP..what does your POCO meter say when you shut everything down but the solar? Is the load still there?

Try our solar cost and savings calculator

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