New Home Builder - Buy Solar Panel System or Pay 20% Less than SoCal Edison Rates

[Heatmiser]

Hello everyone. Brand new here to the forum. I have been reading quite a bit on solar power systems for the home recently as I am going to be purchasing a new house from Lennar Homes that will have a solar panel system installed. SunStreet (division of Lennar) will be installing a 2.86kW system on the house whether or not I choose to buy it. As part of being the new homeowner, I have the option to buy the entire system with 20 year warranty for $15,000. If I choose not to do this, I will be paying SunStreet for the energy the panels create at a rate that will be 20% less than the going rate at SoCal Edison. I am not sure which way to go. I did the math and would be paying $5.24 per watt which is very much on the high side (I believe) for my area so I am thinking it might be best to pass. In addition, the recommended size solar panel system based on the calculators say that I would need around a 12kW system to cover 100% of my electricity needs. So the system they are installing will only cover 25% of my electricity costs. If I do pass on the purchase of their system, I would like to install an entirely separate solar panel system at a more reasonable rate per watt to save additional cash on energy costs. Here are a few questions...

Would you recommend I buy the SunStreet system?
If I pass on the purchase of the SunStreet system, can I buy an entirely separate solar panel system for the same house provided I have the proper roof space (which I do)?
Would I still qualify for t

Here is a little more background... We are moving from a 4,600 square foot two story house to a new 2,800 single story house with all the modern efficient equipment/materials (HVAC 14 SEER condenser with 92% AFUE efficiency, roof radiant barrier including gables, whole house fan, energy efficient low-E glass windows, LED lights throughout, ENERGY STAR appliances, Boral cool roof tiles and more). In our current house we use on average about 10 kW each month but hardly use our HVAC system. Where we will be moving, we will be in a hotter climate and will have to run the AC during the summer months. Not sure how much energy I will be saving with all the new energy efficient crap on the new house, but I am hoping it offsets the additional AC needs. Thoughts?

[J.P.M.]

I'd pass on that system and deal. You can do a lot better on your own. Do some homework. Get and read a copy of "Solar power Your Home for Dummies", get wise to T.O.U. billing and how PV is not as sweet a deal in CA as it once was. You can probably fid a quality system from a quality local vendor for ~~ $3.25 - $3.50/STC Watt with some sharp negotiating.

On your "10 kW each month" usage - units and usage are wrong. Your units (kW are units of power. You are billed in kWh, units of energy) are off as are the quantities. On average, I use ~ 18-19 kWh/day and my use is about half the annual U.S. average.

Your new home will have CA mandated improvements. While nice and energy saving, and probably useful, they're nothing special in terms of new CA construction. Even an SEER of 14 isn't as good as what's available in terms of seasonal efficiency. Sounds like your getting minimum mandated stuff. Typical for contractors. Nothing wrong with that, but again, nothing special, and mostly mandated by part 6 of the CA building code which is title 24 of the CA Code of Regulations. The PV you are being offered is not mandated, nor is it a part of those regs., and is a bolt on profit enhancer for the builder.

[Heatmiser]

Thanks JPM!

[J.P.M.]

Thanks JPM!

You're welcome. Just take it FWIW, keeping in mind that it's mostly opinion around, mine too, but what you describe sounds/looks to me like little more than a way separate new owners from their assets. Opinions vary.

[Drew1021]

I bought a lennar home this past year which had the mandatory power purchase agreement/purchase option. The contract stated that I either had to buy all the power the panels produced at the 20% discount from the power company or buy the panels outright. I chose to buy the panels because at some point in the future, I wanted to install my own solar system and did not want to be paying sunstreet for power that I might not be using. The system is about the same size as what you've got on you new house, except my house is 1400 sq ft bigger than yours, which makes no sense from a sizing perspective. It generated as much as 600 kWh in June and 300 last month. I still plan on adding more panels to the system but I need to see if there's a way it can be done without voiding the warranty.

Hello everyone. Brand new here to the forum. I have been reading quite a bit on solar power systems for the home recently as I am going to be purchasing a new house from Lennar Homes that will have a solar panel system installed. SunStreet (division of Lennar) will be installing a 2.86kW system on the house whether or not I choose to buy it. As part of being the new homeowner, I have the option to buy the entire system with 20 year warranty for $15,000. If I choose not to do this, I will be paying SunStreet for the energy the panels create at a rate that will be 20% less than the going rate at SoCal Edison. I am not sure which way to go. I did the math and would be paying $5.24 per watt which is very much on the high side (I believe) for my area so I am thinking it might be best to pass. In addition, the recommended size solar panel system based on the calculators say that I would need around a 12kW system to cover 100% of my electricity needs. So the system they are installing will only cover 25% of my electricity costs. If I do pass on the purchase of their system, I would like to install an entirely separate solar panel system at a more reasonable rate per watt to save additional cash on energy costs. Here are a few questions...

Would you recommend I buy the SunStreet system?
If I pass on the purchase of the SunStreet system, can I buy an entirely separate solar panel system for the same house provided I have the proper roof space (which I do)?
Would I still qualify for t

Here is a little more background... We are moving from a 4,600 square foot two story house to a new 2,800 single story house with all the modern efficient equipment/materials (HVAC 14 SEER condenser with 92% AFUE efficiency, roof radiant barrier including gables, whole house fan, energy efficient low-E glass windows, LED lights throughout, ENERGY STAR appliances, Boral cool roof tiles and more). In our current house we use on average about 10 kW each month but hardly use our HVAC system. Where we will be moving, we will be in a hotter climate and will have to run the AC during the summer months. Not sure how much energy I will be saving with all the new energy efficient crap on the new house, but I am hoping it offsets the additional AC needs. Thoughts?

[Drew1021]

I bought a lennar home home this past year and it had the same option to buy the panels outright or use their power purchase agreement, which is the 20% discounted rate for all the power generated by the panels on your house. The contract says you must pay for all the power generated whether you use it or not, so I elected to buy the overpriced system because I'm planning on installing either a whole separate system or adding to the existing one in the near future. If I added another system and I had the power purchase agreement, I would be paying for power I wasn't using. Make sure you read the details in that part of your contract for the home purchase.

On on a side note, anyone know if it's possible to add onto a pre-existing system without voiding the warranty?

Hello everyone. Brand new here to the forum. I have been reading quite a bit on solar power systems for the home recently as I am going to be purchasing a new house from Lennar Homes that will have a solar panel system installed. SunStreet (division of Lennar) will be installing a 2.86kW system on the house whether or not I choose to buy it. As part of being the new homeowner, I have the option to buy the entire system with 20 year warranty for $15,000. If I choose not to do this, I will be paying SunStreet for the energy the panels create at a rate that will be 20% less than the going rate at SoCal Edison. I am not sure which way to go. I did the math and would be paying $5.24 per watt which is very much on the high side (I believe) for my area so I am thinking it might be best to pass. In addition, the recommended size solar panel system based on the calculators say that I would need around a 12kW system to cover 100% of my electricity needs. So the system they are installing will only cover 25% of my electricity costs. If I do pass on the purchase of their system, I would like to install an entirely separate solar panel system at a more reasonable rate per watt to save additional cash on energy costs. Here are a few questions...

Would you recommend I buy the SunStreet system?
If I pass on the purchase of the SunStreet system, can I buy an entirely separate solar panel system for the same house provided I have the proper roof space (which I do)?
Would I still qualify for t

Here is a little more background... We are moving from a 4,600 square foot two story house to a new 2,800 single story house with all the modern efficient equipment/materials (HVAC 14 SEER condenser with 92% AFUE efficiency, roof radiant barrier including gables, whole house fan, energy efficient low-E glass windows, LED lights throughout, ENERGY STAR appliances, Boral cool roof tiles and more). In our current house we use on average about 10 kW each month but hardly use our HVAC system. Where we will be moving, we will be in a hotter climate and will have to run the AC during the summer months. Not sure how much energy I will be saving with all the new energy efficient crap on the new house, but I am hoping it offsets the additional AC needs. Thoughts?

[J.P.M.]

I bought a lennar home this past year which had the mandatory power purchase agreement/purchase option. The contract stated that I either had to buy all the power the panels produced at the 20% discount from the power company or buy the panels outright. I chose to buy the panels because at some point in the future, I wanted to install my own solar system and did not want to be paying sunstreet for power that I might not be using. The system is about the same size as what you've got on you new house, except my house is 1400 sq ft bigger than yours, which makes no sense from a sizing perspective. It generated as much as 600 kWh in June and 300 last month. I still plan on adding more panels to the system but I need to see if there's a way it can be done without voiding the warranty.

So,

1.) How big is your purchased system ?
2.) How much did it cost ?
3.) Were are you located ? Zip ?
4.) Any info relating to performance by month ?
5.) Who is Sunstreet ?
6.) Array orientation ?
7.) Did you buy the system from Lennar ?

Increasing/changing PV system size is not as easy as might be thought. Also, depending on your electric provider, NEM arrangements may be different, if possible at all.

If you bought the system from the builder, you likely paid Too much.

[Drew1021]

So,

1.) How big is your purchased system ?
2.) How much did it cost ?
3.) Were are you located ? Zip ?
4.) Any info relating to performance by month ?
5.) Who is Sunstreet ?
6.) Array orientation ?
7.) Did you buy the system from Lennar ?

Increasing/changing PV system size is not as easy as might be thought. Also, depending on your electric provider, NEM arrangements may be different, if possible at all.

If you bought the system from the builder, you likely paid Too much.

Sorry for the double post, didn't realize the forum delays the posting.

1. 3.18 kw
2. $15,500
3. San Diego, 92130
4. June gave me the best output, 601 kWh, November the worst so far, 300
5. Sunstreet seems to be a company affiliated with lennar homes that sets up the mandatory solar systems on lennar homes. Very inflexible and a terrible value.
6. I've got a couple panels 160 and 10 panels 250 degrees
7. Yes, no other options besides being forced to buy all the power produced by the panels, buying the panels outright, or not buying the house at all. I almost didn't want to buy the house over this, but the location and the layout of the house was attractive enough that I had to make that concession

For sure it was way overpriced, but the price of the house was such that it was still worth it to overpay for the solar system. I suppose I can ask who installed the system and ask them about expanding?

[J.P.M.]

Sorry for the double post, didn't realize the forum delays the posting.

1. 3.18 kw
2. $15,500
3. San Diego, 92130
4. June gave me the best output, 601 kWh, November the worst so far, 300
5. Sunstreet seems to be a company affiliated with lennar homes that sets up the mandatory solar systems on lennar homes. Very inflexible and a terrible value.
6. I've got a couple panels 160 and 10 panels 250 degrees
7. Yes, no other options besides being forced to buy all the power produced by the panels, buying the panels outright, or not buying the house at all. I almost didn't want to buy the house over this, but the location and the layout of the house was attractive enough that I had to make that concession

For sure it was way overpriced, but the price of the house was such that it was still worth it to overpay for the solar system. I suppose I can ask who installed the system and ask them about expanding?

Thank you for the response. Looking at their website and some snooping around, the array(s) were probably installed by the same folks/subs who built the house under some deal with Lennar.

Your info supplied here is probably good for others to use and perhaps avoid the mistake of getting sucked into a bad deal. Did you have any option to not get the PV ?

$4.87/STC Watt is approaching probably something like $ 2.00/STC Watt higher than the going rate around here.

FWIW, the output looks about right compared to other systems around here and at least the array isn't oversized. Are you on tiered or T.O.U. rates ?

[Drew1021]

Thank you for the response. Looking at their website and some snooping around, the array(s) were probably installed by the same folks/subs who built the house under some deal with Lennar.

Your info supplied here is probably good for others to use and perhaps avoid the mistake of getting sucked into a bad deal. Did you have any option to not get the PV ?

$4.87/STC Watt is approaching probably something like $ 2.00/STC Watt higher than the going rate around here.

FWIW, the output looks about right compared to other systems around here and at least the array isn't oversized. Are you on tiered or T.O.U. rates ?

I did not have the option to not buy the system or be locked into a 20 year power purchase agreement. It was either of those options, or not buy the house at all. There were lots of people willing to buy the house (including me) with that stipulation, so it was not a negotiable point during the sale. I've stayed on the tiered rates. We've not ever gotten out of the first tier yet. A couple months we were actually net negative.

My electric use will go up in the future though because I'm planning on getting a couple electric vehicles when we're due for new cars, hence the desire to increase the size of the system.

[Heatmiser]

Thanks for joining in everyone. I am the original poster and decided to purchase the system outright specifically because of the clause the above post mentioned that I am liable to pay for all the energy the panels produce REGARDLESS if I use it. The price was $12,980 for a 2.86kW system which I know is overpriced but gets me out of the lease contract.

We haven't moved in yet (a few weeks away) and am about ready to reach out to other solar power companies to look into adding a completely separate system as I have read if I touch anything on the current installed system, my warranty would be void and there is no option from sunStreet to add additional panels on the same system after the fact.

2 questions:

1). Is adding a second, completely separate solar power panel system possible and a good idea if the current system only produces 25% of the energy we will require?

2). The house is located in Temecula, CA which has a ton of sunny days. The builder installed system is facing due South. I have plenty of open roof space to add additional panels on both a directly facing South area of roof as well as directly facing West. I will be SoCal Edison which is moving to a later in the day increased Time of Use plan so I am thinking placing the new system panels on the West facing roof would be most beneficial. Thoughts?

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for joining in everyone. I am the original poster and decided to purchase the system outright specifically because of the clause the above post mentioned that I am liable to pay for all the energy the panels produce REGARDLESS if I use it. The price was $12,980 for a 2.86kW system which I know is overpriced but gets me out of the lease contract.

We haven't moved in yet (a few weeks away) and am about ready to reach out to other solar power companies to look into adding a completely separate system as I have read if I touch anything on the current installed system, my warranty would be void and there is no option from sunStreet to add additional panels on the same system after the fact.

2 questions:

1). Is adding a second, completely separate solar power panel system possible and a good idea if the current system only produces 25% of the energy we will require?

2). The house is located in Temecula, CA which has a ton of sunny days. The builder installed system is facing due South. I have plenty of open roof space to add additional panels on both a directly facing South area of roof as well as directly facing West. I will be SoCal Edison which is moving to a later in the day increased Time of Use plan so I am thinking placing the new system panels on the West facing roof would be most beneficial. Thoughts?

1.) You may have some paperwork and other headaches w/SCE about 2 systems with respect to NEM agreements. The economics will also not be as favorable under the new T.O.U. rates and times. N

2.) In spite of what you may think or have been led to believe, the strong likelihood is that south facing will produce more electricity and ALSO produce a greater off set to your bill on T.OU.

I've not done the comparison for SCE as I've done for SDG & E, but I believe the NEM TO.U. billing for either will produce the similar results of south array orientations producing more revenue offset than west facing by a fair amount.