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  • #46
    The price difference between the 7600A and 10000A is usually pretty small -- usually less than $500. I'm not sure if they're still selling the A-series. Many vendors are switching over to the newer HD series. For example, for the newer model:
    $1499 (7600H-US) versus $1899 (10000H-US) at www dot altestore dot com

    BUT, it's not just the price of the inverter alone, the wiring cost may (or may not) increase depending on the whether or not a line side tap can / was already used and the size of the wire gauge and conduit.. Generally, a 10K or 11.4K inverter cannot be used with a load side tap (aka breaker used for input in your panel) because the bus bars aren't rated for that much current -- unless you have a 300 or 400 amp panel. But if you already have a line size tap, and the wire size is large enough for the output AC amps of the 10K, then the install costs could be very minimal.

    Unfortunately, SolarEdge does not sell Wifi units in the United States. I don't know why -- it's stupid. Mine also came with Cellular which sux. I ended running Ethernet to it. An Ethernet to Zigbee bridge is also an option (or a 3rd party Ethernet to Wifi bridge) but both can be flaky depending on the reliability of your Zigbee / Wifi signal. In the long run, if it is at all possible to run Ethernet this is your best bet and your will be much happier with the quantity and frequency of the data updates.

    My bigger concern is that your panel STC (10,325W DC) is greater than the warranty on the 7600A-US allows. Perhaps they allow a small grace (I don't know -- someone here on the board might) but you might call SolarEdge and ask. You'd hate to find out your inverter warranty was void. If your vendor did a naughty, now's the time to get it fixed.

    If you are only clipping occasionally, for 15 or 30 minutes it might not be a huge concern (the clipping itself). BUT, it is Oct now, nearly Nov. Peak sun is in June. If you're clipping to any appreciable extent now, it will be really bad in the Spring / early Summer.

    If you don't mind me asking, what was your total installed cost per watt? Was it a smaller local installer or a large chain or big box retailer? Do you know what size optimizers were used? P320's?

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    • #47
      nevermind...
      Last edited by foo1bar; 10-23-2018, 01:56 AM. Reason: removed it - realized i was responding to a really old post...

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by JSchnee21 View Post

        Unfortunately, SolarEdge does not sell Wifi units in the United States. I don't know why -- it's stupid. Mine also came with Cellular which sux. I ended running Ethernet to it. An Ethernet to Zigbee bridge is also an option (or a 3rd party Ethernet to Wifi bridge) but both can be flaky depending on the reliability of your Zigbee / Wifi signal. In the long run, if it is at all possible to run Ethernet this is your best bet and your will be much happier with the quantity and frequency of the data updates.
        My replacement inverter did come with WiFi but we couldn't get it to work, perhaps due to the router being at the furthest location from the SolarEdge. I know my garage to be difficult for WiFi. I had the installer pull the cellular unit off the old inverter and put it on the replacement. I sold the old inverter with the WiFi and it seems the new owner has it working.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by imola.zhp View Post
          Can someone show what clipping looks like on Solar Edge's portal? My system is 10.33kW, my inverter is an 8.6kW, which I am just learning is out of the range of a 1.1 ratio. I never see anything above 8.0 on the solar edge portal which sufficed me for a month (give or take) but it does seem to get flat at about 7.8/7.9 making me think perhaps clipping is going on, just lower than the inverters rating. Thanks in advance.
          Here is my system with the old 5000W inverter. Clipping at 5000w.png Here is a normal curve, not clipped.
          Screenshot_20180924-212150_SolarEdge.jpg

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by jdonalds View Post

            My replacement inverter did come with WiFi but we couldn't get it to work, perhaps due to the router being at the furthest location from the SolarEdge. I know my garage to be difficult for WiFi. I had the installer pull the cellular unit off the old inverter and put it on the replacement. I sold the old inverter with the WiFi and it seems the new owner has it working.
            SolarEdge does not sell a US version WIFI adapter. They have Zigbee and cellular only.
            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by JSchnee21 View Post

              My bigger concern is that your panel STC (10,325W DC) is greater than the warranty on the 7600A-US allows. Perhaps they allow a small grace (I don't know -- someone here on the board might) but you might call SolarEdge and ask. You'd hate to find out your inverter warranty was void. If your vendor did a naughty, now's the time to get it fixed.
              They do not. This would void the warranty and shows a major mistake by the installer. It is NOT an approved install if they go over the allowed DC wattage.
              Last edited by ButchDeal; 10-23-2018, 09:37 AM.
              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

              Comment


              • #52
                You can determine if your system is clipping by looking at the voltage. Typically my DC voltage is around 370V but when my system starts clipping, it goes up to 430V.

                I'm attaching some pictures of how it looks like on the SolarEdge monitoring portal and also from PVOutput (I like this better).

                I have a 7600 inverter and my system only clips when it is really cold outside (which happened a couple of days ago). I've calculated the amount of energy that I give up when it clips and it doesn't make financial sense to get a larger inverter, which I hear would be not as efficient in low solar periods).

                You can find my reports in my signature.
                Production.PNG
                voltage.PNG
                pvoutput-20181021.PNG
                https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=59404

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by foo1bar View Post

                  If it's clipping, what I've seen by other people is that it'll be very flat for that plateau.

                  I have 8.96kW of panels on 7.6kW inverter and I haven't seen clipping. (well, I have seen that I think it hit it's max for a very brief time when I had sun poking through clouds - so "clipping" for less than 15 min)
                  My graphs look somewhat flat at the top due to multiple orientations (some panels east-ish some pointing westish - so it winds up more flattened at the top then a simple all-in-one-direction system.
                  But when you look closely at the graph you can see that there is some variation over that peak hour - not a lot but some.

                  As Jonathan asked - are you sure it's a 8.6kW inverter?
                  (A quick search shows that might be true if you're in Mexico, have WYE service, and have a SE10K model. And there might be other situations besides that.)

                  7.6kW inverters are common in the US - so if you're in the US maybe you thought it was 8.6, but it's really 7.6.


                  Yes, my mistake, it is indeed a 7600A. The confusion came from the menu on the unit that states a "MAX" of 8.4kW, the model number on the side clearly states it is a 7600A.

                  Originally posted by foo1bar View Post

                  Larger than 7600W inverter means you need a >40A breaker for it.
                  And that can result in having to spend significantly more for a new panel or other changes to handle it.

                  With clipping, keep in mind that during the 1-2 hours you have clipping you're probably still getting vast majority of what you would have if it wasn't clipping. It's a bell curve, so be careful making a guesstimate on how much is above the clipping line.
                  Clipping a few percent during the peak can be a better choice financially than going with fewer panels (less production) or a larger inverter (more expense).

                  As an example, if I have a 10kW inverter, and my panels will hit 10.5kW for a few minutes each day during peak production, that means I'm missing out on 5% during those few minutes (and 2-3% over the ~1 hour of clipping).
                  But I have the other 10 hours of the day where I'm getting 5% more production. So I may have 1 hour maxed out at 10kW, but I have 5 hours on each side at zero-to-10kW, and those parts are 5% more than if I weren't clipping. So I miss out on less than 0.5kWH because I didn't have a bigger inverter. But I gained 4kWH (on a ~80kWH day for this hypothetical) because I had more production than if I had downsized the panels to not have clipping.

                  OTOH, if you're clipping this month and you're in TN, it may be that you're past the point where it made sense to add that last panel or two.
                  The "good" news is that panels degrade a little each year - so you will have less clipping over time.

                  If you can upgrade to a larger inverter without a major issue (ex. main panel upgrade) then I'd probably try to convince the installer that he should have used a larger inverter.


                  Thank you for your response, I will review communication with the installer but what you are saying sounds pretty similar to what his explanation was. That if the system clipped, it would be minimal. Still, I'm new to this, is my peak sun angle going to be this time of year? Or the spring? If I am seeing some clipping now, will it get worse? Interesting point about the clipping lessening over time as the panels degrade, I had not considered that. I'm not sure how to approach him yet, I need to find out these details. So far I have only had two days of clipping, one for an hour and one for an hour and a half, both this month (October), no clipping in September though my most power generated in one day occurred in September.
                  Last edited by imola.zhp; 10-23-2018, 10:50 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by JSchnee21 View Post
                    The price difference between the 7600A and 10000A is usually pretty small -- usually less than $500. I'm not sure if they're still selling the A-series. Many vendors are switching over to the newer HD series. For example, for the newer model:
                    $1499 (7600H-US) versus $1899 (10000H-US) at www dot altestore dot com

                    BUT, it's not just the price of the inverter alone, the wiring cost may (or may not) increase depending on the whether or not a line side tap can / was already used and the size of the wire gauge and conduit.. Generally, a 10K or 11.4K inverter cannot be used with a load side tap (aka breaker used for input in your panel) because the bus bars aren't rated for that much current -- unless you have a 300 or 400 amp panel. But if you already have a line size tap, and the wire size is large enough for the output AC amps of the 10K, then the install costs could be very minimal.

                    Unfortunately, SolarEdge does not sell Wifi units in the United States. I don't know why -- it's stupid. Mine also came with Cellular which sux. I ended running Ethernet to it. An Ethernet to Zigbee bridge is also an option (or a 3rd party Ethernet to Wifi bridge) but both can be flaky depending on the reliability of your Zigbee / Wifi signal. In the long run, if it is at all possible to run Ethernet this is your best bet and your will be much happier with the quantity and frequency of the data updates.

                    My bigger concern is that your panel STC (10,325W DC) is greater than the warranty on the 7600A-US allows. Perhaps they allow a small grace (I don't know -- someone here on the board might) but you might call SolarEdge and ask. You'd hate to find out your inverter warranty was void. If your vendor did a naughty, now's the time to get it fixed.

                    If you are only clipping occasionally, for 15 or 30 minutes it might not be a huge concern (the clipping itself). BUT, it is Oct now, nearly Nov. Peak sun is in June. If you're clipping to any appreciable extent now, it will be really bad in the Spring / early Summer.

                    If you don't mind me asking, what was your total installed cost per watt? Was it a smaller local installer or a large chain or big box retailer? Do you know what size optimizers were used? P320's?
                    Thank you for your detailed response. The system does not go into the breaker box at all, it is metered out separately. My understanding is that a future battery installation will bridge the two systems but for now they act independent of each other. We sell 100% to the grid and buy back 100% of what we use, there are two meters on the house. This is an unfortunate requirement of our utility company, they do not use bidirectional meters.

                    I attempted to run ethernet to our inverter and use a wifi adapter but I didn't spend any further time trying to set it up. I'm sure some settings need to be changed on the inverter, for now I just unplugged the wifi adapter and left the cable coiled up. I need to spend more time on this.

                    I will inquire, again, about the oversized panels for inverter, yes, I would hate to have the inverter go out and warranty be void as well. The clipping currently seems to be about a maximum of an hour and a half on a full-sun day from 1pm-2:30pm. I've really only had two days, so far, where clipping is apparent.

                    My installed cost was just over $30,500, o $2.96/watt, this includes additional costs over and above the installer who's cost was $2.79/watt. I had to move a vent pipe and pay two different fee's to the utility company, one for as pre-study and one for the final hookup. We are using P320's.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by jdonalds View Post

                      My replacement inverter did come with WiFi but we couldn't get it to work, perhaps due to the router being at the furthest location from the SolarEdge. I know my garage to be difficult for WiFi. I had the installer pull the cellular unit off the old inverter and put it on the replacement. I sold the old inverter with the WiFi and it seems the new owner has it working.
                      I thought I had seen an WIFI module on eBay, might be a small world if it was yours. I have several things in the garage with wifi that use a repeater we put on the ceiling of the garage, it works well. Rachio IRO, Ryboi garage door opener, Ring floodlight camera, JuiceBox Pro EV charger, etc. The garage is busy!

                      Originally posted by jdonalds View Post
                      Here is my system with the old 5000W inverter.
                      Here is a normal curve, not clipped.
                      Thank you for sharing, I am seeing some clipping but it is minimal, however, again, the system has only been up for a few months and I am concerned about other times of the year.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                        They do not. This would void the warranty and shows a major mistake by the installer. It is NOT an approved install if they go over the allowed DC wattage.
                        This is very concerning, I need to decide how to approach this with the installer.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by macaddict View Post
                          You can determine if your system is clipping by looking at the voltage. Typically my DC voltage is around 370V but when my system starts clipping, it goes up to 430V.

                          I'm attaching some pictures of how it looks like on the SolarEdge monitoring portal and also from PVOutput (I like this better).

                          I have a 7600 inverter and my system only clips when it is really cold outside (which happened a couple of days ago). I've calculated the amount of energy that I give up when it clips and it doesn't make financial sense to get a larger inverter, which I hear would be not as efficient in low solar periods).

                          You can find my reports in my signature.
                          Unfortunately my portal is very much limited when compared to your screen shots. I do not have access to the charts you are showing. I believe I am seeing some clipping, but very minimal as compared to what you are showing here.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Here are my two days of clipping, both minor, but as I have said again and again I need to determine if this is going to get worse during other times of the year, or not. One day shows an hour of clipping, the other an hour and a half. Mid October in Memphis, TN.

                            Additionally, SolarEdge has the size of my system, I'm surprised it didn't red-flag it for being over-sized for the inverter.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              April / May / June will be much worse for clipping. Check your contract / bill of sale. Does it specify the exact model / part number for the inverter? Your array is out of spec for the 7600A, but NOT for the 7600H. Maybe the installer didn't realize (no excuse) that the specs differ. The newer H-series permits a higher DC wattage without voiding the warranty (11,800W).

                              BUT, that aside, the 7600H will CLIP MORE than the 7600A does. You need to have your current inverter replaced with a 10.0kW unit. Either A-series or H-Series.

                              Now as to what approach to take with the installer, that's hard to say. They should be informed of the error of their ways. But many people get very defensive / testy when you tell them that they are wrong. Either you need to tell them they are wrong and press them to fix it (Solar Edge 7600A-US spec's in hand). OR, offer to pay the difference (say $500) to upgrade to the 10000 and see if they will install it for free. If not, then press them with their error.

                              I'm hard pressed to recommend the A-series versus the H-series. Yes, the H is newer, smaller, and more efficient. BUT, it has no fans, the reliability is unproven, and the software very new. Of course the A-series could be discontinued at any time. I have the 11.4kW A-series myself. You're call.

                              While you're at it, I would strong recommend Solar Edge consumption monitoring. Coupled with my Ecobee thermostat, the data I get is fantastic.

                              -Jonathan

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by macaddict View Post
                                You can determine if your system is clipping by looking at the voltage. Typically my DC voltage is around 370V but when my system starts clipping, it goes up to 430V.

                                I'm attaching some pictures of how it looks like on the SolarEdge monitoring portal and also from PVOutput (I like this better).
                                Macaddict, is it the installer or SolarEdge that enables the additional parts of the portal? Do you know?
                                Last edited by Cwc303; 10-27-2018, 01:17 AM. Reason: This thing keeps clipping my posts off. Gah.

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