SolarCity Isn't Looking So Terrible

[Singuy]

My condolences are not meant to help your solar ignorance. The best thing you can do for yourself is get informed. FWIW, I'm not an installer and I don't have that skill set, but I probably forgot more about solar energy than you'll know for quite some time, and my experience watching how SolarCity screws up jobs and people is perhaps somewhat unique. as for my possible aid, prior to retirement 15 years ago, my consulting fees as a P.E. were ~ $150 /hr. Your self education will probably cost less than that.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

Can you please explain more about how they "screwed up jobs and people in a unique way"? Most of their negative reviews are about their loans and leases...a lot of negative reviews on liens on the house, hard to get out of their loans, and their autopay system being atrocious. I am paying cash so all that other stuff is not my concern. I am more interested in what ways they have completely screw up installs and not providing the warranties they promised. I'm not in construction so I don't know a thing about it. I have seen the panels installed by solar city at my neighbors' house and they look fine and he hasn't complained about leaky roofs, under production, or electronic problems. Everyone in my neighborhood are ecstatic about their Solar City job and customer service..so if you think they are all sheeps..please explain away so I can be on the look out.

[J.P.M.]

You want to come and install the panels for me? I can't find anyone better than Solar City here because the above BS are what is coming out from local installers....how monocrystallines will break in FL and Solar edge inverters will give me 30% more power when it's cloudy vs standard inverters.

So your condolences isn't doing a thing for me unless I contract you to install the panels for me.

My condolences are not meant to help your solar ignorance. The best thing you can do for yourself is get informed. FWIW, I'm not an installer and I don't have that skill set, but I probably forgot more about solar energy than you'll know for quite some time, and my experience watching how SolarCity screws up jobs and people is perhaps somewhat unique. as for my possible aid, prior to retirement 15 years ago, my consulting fees as a P.E. were ~ $150 /hr. Your self education will probably cost less than that.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Singuy]

If you're still talking to SolarCity, you still have my condolences.

You want to come and install the panels for me? I can't find anyone better than Solar City here because the above BS are what is coming out from local installers....how monocrystallines will break in FL and Solar edge inverters will give me 30% more power when it's cloudy vs standard inverters. The best local installer I have found only has 6 reviews, been established for 2 years, and only provides me with a 1 year bumper to bumper warranty.

So your condolences isn't doing a thing for me unless I contract you to install the panels for me.

[J.P.M.]

Ah, so the rep is indeed BSing. Can't trust any of these installers..everyone has their own little lie.

I told the rep SolarCity most likely will give me the regular string inverters and not solar edge with optimizers due to the fact that I have very little shading..and the rep said "but clouds, we get clouds, that's a shade". I didn't think any optimizers would help with that.

If you're still talking to SolarCity, you still have my condolences.

[Singuy]

Ah, so the rep is indeed BSing. Can't trust any of these installers..everyone has their own little lie.

I told the rep SolarCity most likely will give me the regular string inverters and not solar edge with optimizers due to the fact that I have very little shading..and the rep said "but clouds, we get clouds, that's a shade". I didn't think any optimizers would help with that.

[Mike90250]

I've oversized my array to help with harvest in winter, when it's cloudy for weeks at a time. Under cloud cover I get 10% or even less, of my array output.

If the photons are not there, optimizer or MPPT cannot help.

[J.P.M.]

I don't think there is much doubt that on a partly cloudy day, giving each panel its own mppt will result in more raw output. Conversion efficiency matters too, but if we take as given that there is no difference between systems in that respect, the real question is whether or not the (small but measurable) increased output is enough to justify the additional complexity of the system (and the failure risks that follow). I don't think you'll find an objective answer to that question, so it really comes down to risk tolerance and preference of the homeowner / installer.

IMO, there's ,not much doubt in my mind that optimizers will neither improve or impair performance of an array as f(cloudiness).

Perhaps the OP confused what the rep was referring to, or the rep is B.S.ing.

Bottom line for me, FWIW, no/little shade = string inverter.

[bcroe]

I don't have a string inverter based system to compare to, but my Solar Edge system (which I really like) seems to perform very (likely equally) poorly in cloudy days. When a cloud is in front of the sun, unless it's a small cloud, it tends to block the light to my entire array. Our July and August in NJ has been unusually cloudy/rainy and I can get anywhere near as many KWH as I did the last couple days of June

One advantage to a string system (over micros), is you can add panels to boost performance under clouds
if they bother you a lot. How frustrated are you; that is what is giving decent cloudy output here? Others
don't approve, your call. Of course added panels would overload the plant if pointed south under good sun,
so they should be oriented some other direction for benefit then. Bruce Roe

[AzRoute66]

Yes, I think the optimizers won't help much for clouds, but if you have a tree branch or power pole or in my case it would be a ridiculously large chimney marching across the array there is likely some nice benefit there.

[max2k]

I don't have a string inverter based system to compare to, but my Solar Edge system (which I really like) seems to perform very (likely equally) poorly in cloudy days. When a cloud is in front of the sun, unless it's a small cloud, it tends to block the light to my entire array. Our July and August in NJ has been unusually cloudy/rainy and I can get anywhere near as many KWH as I did the last couple days of June

Size of the cloud shadow on the ground/array is pretty much equal to size of the cloud so it needs to be really small cloud to cause partial shading. There's corner case when big cloud moves over half of array and stops there but that would look more like personal revenge .

[JSchnee21]

I don't have a string inverter based system to compare to, but my Solar Edge system (which I really like) seems to perform very (likely equally) poorly in cloudy days. When a cloud is in front of the sun, unless it's a small cloud, it tends to block the light to my entire array. Our July and August in NJ has been unusually cloudy/rainy and I can get anywhere near as many KWH as I did the last couple days of June

[sensij]

What are your thoughts on solar edge's performance when it comes to cloud shading vs string inverters without optimizers? Does it give any additional benefits? One of the sales rep is telling me it performs better during a cloudy day and I'm thinking this is BS.

I don't think there is much doubt that on a partly cloudy day, giving each panel its own mppt will result in more raw output. Conversion efficiency matters too, but if we take as given that there is no difference between systems in that respect, the real question is whether or not the (small but measurable) increased output is enough to justify the additional complexity of the system (and the failure risks that follow). I don't think you'll find an objective answer to that question, so it really comes down to risk tolerance and preference of the homeowner / installer.

[Singuy]

What are your thoughts on solar edge's performance when it comes to cloud shading vs string inverters without optimizers? Does it give any additional benefits? One of the sales rep is telling me it performs better during a cloudy day and I'm thinking this is BS.

[cebury]

I think you are about as informed as you want to be, or as willing to put in the additionsl effort for, at this point. Make your decision, your eyes are open, you know the risks for various options. Its always a dice roll. Make sure that contract is solid and reflects the verbal statements and has the model numbers of equipment and make sure you are there when it is installed and when the inspector does his work. Maybe he will be friendly enough to allow you to ask a few questions about the install and discretely ask about the quality SC work in your area. Good luck!

[Mike7381]

1. 3 adults and 1 child living in the house
2. 3 Central a/c units. 13 Sears units. One unit powers 700 sqft bonus room upstairs which is set to 85 all times. One 5 t unit is on at 77 from 7pm - 11 am. Last unit is on from 12am - 8am set to 79.

3. Pool pump set to use 240w/hr x 8 hr. I just recently reduced it down to 120w/ hr.

4. Attic has a r34 rating. I also have radiant barriers.

5. Windows are not energy efficient ones. I also don't have foam in our concrete center block walls.

6. House is 10 years old, 4400 sqaureft with 11 ft ceilings throughout.

7. This months electric bill used 2000kwh. Last month was 2400kwh. Last year same time with 2 less people and no pool used 1400kwh. The extra renter plus now new baby has me turning on the a/c almost double..plus more laundry

8. 90% of my lights are led. Renter has a ceiling fan light that he uses for 5hr/day that uses 300w/hr(halogen). He likes his room super Nova bright.

9. Spring months we use 1000-1400 kwh. Winter months we are down to 900-1200 kwh. I have an indoor propane heater I use to increase temps in the master only before heading to bed..then I use an small electric heater overnight. Wife complains about this method a lot but in FL it's only for a few weeks out of the year.

Look like a lot of consumption are from your central A/C and pool. I don't know is it necessary to turn the 2 central A/C on at night. 7-11 AM set at 77 degree and 12 AM - 8 AM at 79 degree consume a lot of electricity. I don't know how the weather is in Florida, in Los Angeles, we never turn on the A/C at night. The A/C was only turned on from 10 AM-8PM depending on the weather. If you can open the window during the night time instead of turning on those 2 big central A/C you will save a lot of electricity, might even cut down 30% or more. Also how many rooms are those 2 Central A/C is cooling? You might consider a few mini A/C that are above 20 Seer which also have a heat pump that substitute your small electric heater during the winter. I checked the first day of electric data for yesterday and I can't believe how much less energy we consume. Yesterday was around 87 degree in my area, with a house with no attic, it can easily go up to 100 degree without A/C. Before my 2.5 ton central A/C uses around 2.2 KW per hour alone (3.3-3.8 KW with other stuffs in the house) and the temperature of the house still went up to 83-89 degree depending on the temperature outside. Right now with both mini split system on, I am only using 1.9 KW max with other stuffs combine and it is enough to cool down 2 rooms to under 78 degree. We are only home during the night time on weekdays, so only 1 system was turn on at any given time. Only used a total of 23 KWH yesterday comparing to normally 38-48 KW with central A/C. I find it amazing with the 17 Seer system. After the system is installed, I don't think I will be getting solar unless I got an EV and expand my aquarium hobby in the garage with another system install. Since your house have insulation and attic, if you and your tenants spent most of your times in the room, mini-split system above 20 Seer can surely help you. Another thing to consider is installing cool roof or cool liquid roof when its time for you to replace your roof. They can lower down the temperature of your whole house by at least 10 degrees during the hot days. This will be my next project in about 2-3 years since my roof is not in good condition. Also you can research more on time of use rate plans, I just requested to switch it 2 days ago because I found out, I can save 10% by using the same amount of energy because the rate are lower than my tiered rate during the 8 months winter period. Anyway, let me know what you think.